Am I correctly scared of water based flood coolants?

[Karl_T]

if you go with a mister, i suggest a zero fog one. Buy one from Henchforth, or make your own. Here's my build, there are many others.

Zero Fog mister

I’ve preferred a coolant mister over flood coolant on my machines without enclosures. The purchased units work well but they tend to put out a slight fog. If you spend 100s of hours in the shop you soon get sensitive to the smell. If you got $500 to spend a Henchforth Fog buster mister is the...

www.hobby-machinist.com

 

[Earl]

I'm interested in putting a barrel flush system together... as well as having some flood coolant on my mill.
to
I know some guys making top notch barrels using SYN4300 (http://www.drlubricants.com/products.html#syn4300) with the factory PM1440GT flood coolant pump through a filter into the muzzle end of the barrel.

I'm just not sold using water based products on my machines. I'd hate to find corrosion under a vice or lathe carriage. Maybe I'm just afraid of the unknown.

I'm not opposed to a traditional high pressure system... but if I can avoid buying a 1200 dollar pump, and use the same coolant on my mill... win win...


Talk me into or out of flood coolant.

Why do you want a barrel flush system? I thought I needed one so I put one together using a carbonator pump a couple of valves, a rotary coupler and an oil filter. I used the Nat Lambeth mix of Rustlick 5050 cut 5 to 1 (or was it 10 to 1 - dont remember). I also had a Greg Tannel rotary coupling that clamped directly onto the muzzle of the barrel. That one leaked so I obtained a Dueblin rotary coupler. Since I was chambering and had not yet cut the barrel to length, I drilled out the muzzle and tapped it for a small fitting. No leaks there. You then need some kind of shield at the reamer to keep the coolant relatively close to what ever you are attempting to catch it in. (some guys use part of a quart soda bottle with the reamer going thru the neck of the bottle) Another thing is that you have to do a lot of "creative filing" on the head of the screw that holds the pilot bushing on the reamer. (if you have a properly sized bushing, it will be difficult to get enough coolant past that screw for it to be effective.) If you dont have a "catch basin" for your coolant, it will end up in the sump of your lathe lube system. No problem if all you use is coolant. If you use any oil for threading or cutting, it will contaminate your coolant and you will suffer all of the issues surrounding the mixing of the two. I also had issues with coolant going everywhere except where it was supposed to go. (mostly on me) You must have a separate pump as the one in your lathe will not generate enough pressure. (I am assuming that you are using piloted reamers - solid pilot reamers have more clearance at the front and require less pressure ) I ran about 60 psi. The pump put out about 90 psi and I used valves to bypass the flow and reduce the pressure. It did work. I still had issues when sometimes the reamer flutes would pack. (even with 60 psi coolant flowing) It is difficult to see the chips when all that coolant is coming out when you release the pressure on the reamer. If all I did was chamber barrels all day long, 5 days a week, I might use a flush system again. I only chamber barrels for myself and I do maybe 20 barrels a year. The setup and the mess are not worth the benefits of the system. (in my opinion). I have a couple of friends that are professional gunsmiths specializing in competition rifles and neither of them is interested in a flush system. Good luck with your system if you decide to build it.

 

[Earl]

I forgot to mention the Mill. I flute barrels on my 9 x 42 mill. I tried the same coolant and it worked fine. The issue was the cleanup. It took way to long to clean up. I have to remove everything from the table. (dividing head, tailstock, angle plates supporting the barrel). I now use cutting oil and I use a stainless drywall mud pan under the barrel to catch the oil. Works great and I can leave the setup in place without fear of staining or corrosion. (a little extra oil never hurt a mill table)

 

[Jim F]

Every CNC machine I have ever seen used water soluable.........
Ours at work use it, the surface grinders use a water based coolant.........
No rust issues......
Some guys use CNC coolant on the Bridgeports.

 

[LVLAaron]

Why do you want a barrel flush system? I thought I needed one so I put one together using a carbonator pump a couple of valves, a rotary coupler and an oil filter. I used the Nat Lambeth mix of Rustlick 5050 cut 5 to 1 (or was it 10 to 1 - dont remember). I also had a Greg Tannel rotary coupling that clamped directly onto the muzzle of the barrel. That one leaked so I obtained a Dueblin rotary coupler. Since I was chambering and had not yet cut the barrel to length, I drilled out the muzzle and tapped it for a small fitting. No leaks there. You then need some kind of shield at the reamer to keep the coolant relatively close to what ever you are attempting to catch it in. (some guys use part of a quart soda bottle with the reamer going thru the neck of the bottle) Another thing is that you have to do a lot of "creative filing" on the head of the screw that holds the pilot bushing on the reamer. (if you have a properly sized bushing, it will be difficult to get enough coolant past that screw for it to be effective.) If you dont have a "catch basin" for your coolant, it will end up in the sump of your lathe lube system. No problem if all you use is coolant. If you use any oil for threading or cutting, it will contaminate your coolant and you will suffer all of the issues surrounding the mixing of the two. I also had issues with coolant going everywhere except where it was supposed to go. (mostly on me) You must have a separate pump as the one in your lathe will not generate enough pressure. (I am assuming that you are using piloted reamers - solid pilot reamers have more clearance at the front and require less pressure ) I ran about 60 psi. The pump put out about 90 psi and I used valves to bypass the flow and reduce the pressure. It did work. I still had issues when sometimes the reamer flutes would pack. (even with 60 psi coolant flowing) It is difficult to see the chips when all that coolant is coming out when you release the pressure on the reamer. If all I did was chamber barrels all day long, 5 days a week, I might use a flush system again. I only chamber barrels for myself and I do maybe 20 barrels a year. The setup and the mess are not worth the benefits of the system. (in my opinion). I have a couple of friends that are professional gunsmiths specializing in competition rifles and neither of them is interested in a flush system. Good luck with your system if you decide to build it.

I'll have to go take a look at my buddies. He's still "pecking" with the reamer and not going straight in all the way like one might with a high pressure system. Totally understand the wanting to keep the coolant separate from the oil - my machine is always covered in a bath of oils

 

[mksj]

On through the barrel you cannot use the stock coolant pump you need to use a higher pressure pump typically 70-100 PSI and as mentioned you can pick up a carbonator pump for $150-200 and a single 1/3-1/2Hp single phase motor for about the same, you need a bunch of fittings and a filtering system. I don't work on guns but worked with many others as to setting them up/control systems that run them. Tons of online information on the subject. The newer synthetic water based coolants work very well, I used them in my metal bandsaw for years and it lasted a long time with no significant rust issues. There is a large difference in products, I ended up using Koolrite 2290 which lasted over a year in the sump with NO additives or biocides, and that was in Arizona. I also use it in a 10% concentration in my mist/Fogbuster type system on my mill. Very long tank life without going bad. I have not seen rust between metal surfaces but it will discolor. When doing through the barrel I see people using the end of a plastic coke bottle to contain the flood coolant from going all over the place. Lots of info out there.

Koolrite.com

www.koolrite.com

 

[LVLAaron]

Appreciate the info - I know 2 guys using low pressure pumps for the task and they're both premiere barrel guys. I understand the need for high pressure if you're taking deep/long cuts. But if you're taking 50 thou pecks it seems like low pressure would be fine, no?

 

[Earl]

you are not clearing the chips out of your reamer with a pump designed to dribble cutting fluid on a work piece.

 

[BGHansen]

I use TrimSol from Master Fluid Solutions; water-based and no rust problems. Their recommended mix ratio is 10 parts water to 1 of coolant. A $50 gallon makes up a lot of coolant. I've used it for 4 years on a Tormach CNC mill and have had no rust issues.

I've used it a little with a Noga mister on my Bridgeport. No issues with rust there either though it makes a bit more of a mess as I have poor containment of the spray/condensation on that mill.

Bruce

 

[Liljoebrshooter]

My opinion on a flush system is the same as Earl. I did one barrel with mine and said no more. If I did chambers all day it would be worth the effort.
Joe