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Will a Vertex HV-8 rotary table fit a PM-833T?
- Thread starter Rhizome
- Start date
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- Dec 26, 2015
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I had the Phase II 8" rotary on my RF-45 and it fit just fine. The table on the 833 is about the same size as the RF-45 (a bit bigger) but the 833 has considerably more Z height, and more XY travel as well. So the 8" will fit fine. When I upgraded to the PM935 I considered moving up to a 10" rotary, but instead sold the Phase II and got the Vertex HV-8 (much nicer unit). The HV-8 weighs about 70 pounds. The additional weight of a 10" just wasn't worth it. 70 pounds is about my limit without some kind of mechanical assist to get it on/off the XY table. You may be different in that regard. The HV-10 is ~90 pounds. The Z-height difference is only 1/4" and the 10" has six t-slots instead of 3 or 4 on the 8". My HV-8 has 4 t-slots, the spec and some photos on the web shows it with 3 t-slots, so that's confusing. I bought my Vertex from Matt at PM.
I use a 6" Bison chuck on my HV-8 and made a device to help with centering the chuck on the rotary, and grossly aligning the rotary to the spindle axis. That's documented here. This kind of device has proven to be really helpful in setups. Here is a short video showing the 6" chuck in use on the HV-8 - it fits fine, but it's tight. I'm actually very happy with the HV-8 and IMO it is right-sized for a larger benchtop mill like the 833. By the time you add a chuck, it does suck up a lot of Z-height, so measure carefully.
I use a 6" Bison chuck on my HV-8 and made a device to help with centering the chuck on the rotary, and grossly aligning the rotary to the spindle axis. That's documented here. This kind of device has proven to be really helpful in setups. Here is a short video showing the 6" chuck in use on the HV-8 - it fits fine, but it's tight. I'm actually very happy with the HV-8 and IMO it is right-sized for a larger benchtop mill like the 833. By the time you add a chuck, it does suck up a lot of Z-height, so measure carefully.
David, thank you. From the dimension and weight specs, I thought it would be about the maximum I can lift up to the PM-833T's table without a overhead hoist. I am confused about the HV-8 t-slot numbers. Most website show 3 t-slots with some showing 4 t-slots. The drawing on Vertex's website show 6 t-slots. The color of the main body is also different; green, black, and the occasional red.
Does it make any practical difference in real-life use to have 3 vs 4 t-slots?
Does it make any practical difference in real-life use to have 3 vs 4 t-slots?
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- Dec 26, 2015
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I’m perplexed as well. I bought mine in 2018 from PM and it’s black with 4 t-slots. If it's important, call PM. At the time I bought mine, Matt had the best prices. Here is one on eBay where it's specifically 4 slots. The price is about $120 higher than my cost at PM, but it's been almost 2 years, with plenty of new import tarrifs on Chinese goods since then. Here's one from Acer where the photo shows six slots, and the spec sheet in the same listing shows 3 slots. Go figure.
I don't know your experience using a rotary table, so forgive me if I'm being pedantic. They are time consuming to center, and even more time consuming to center the chuck on the centered rotary table - they all have to be in concentric alignment to the spindle. This video is a good example of the centering routine and hassle. This is what drove me to make the centering spud shown in the video I linked to above.
I would prefer to have 4 t-slots for tapping the chuck around to get it centered, but I don't think it's critical. I generally center in Y-axis first, snug that down, then center on the X, then re-check the Y. So I think in terms of 4-quadrants like a 4 jaw chuck centering. Having 3 t-slots doesn't prevent that same technique, but it can get confusing if you don't force yourself to ignore the fact that there are only 3 t-slots on the rotary. I suppose there is an argument to be made that 4 slots gives more options for clamping when a chuck is not used. By that logic, 6 would be even better.
The center of the HV-8 is MT3 taper, but it isn't very deep. A standard MT3 arbor is too long and will need to be cut shorter - they are hardened so I used an angle grinder with cut-off disk. That MT3 center can be really handy in mounting things you want to more quickly add/remove. I can imagine a 4" chuck on an MT3 mount being ideal if 4" is a big enough chuck for your work. This is an example - non-rotating type.
I can confirm that my HV-8 takes these specific t-nuts. At least the 4-slot version does.
This is the dividing plate system for the HV-8 - they can be hard to source.
Rotagrip in the UK carries a lot of Vertex stuff and I order from them often. They ship promptly to the US at reasonable prices. They also carry the Royal EasyChange system at prices about half what they are in the US.
If you get to the bottom of the number of slots confusion, I'd be interested in knowing what's up.
BTW, be careful - there are counterfit Vertex rotaries on eBay. The Vertex brand is so much better than the Phase II, it's almost shocking.
I don't know your experience using a rotary table, so forgive me if I'm being pedantic. They are time consuming to center, and even more time consuming to center the chuck on the centered rotary table - they all have to be in concentric alignment to the spindle. This video is a good example of the centering routine and hassle. This is what drove me to make the centering spud shown in the video I linked to above.
I would prefer to have 4 t-slots for tapping the chuck around to get it centered, but I don't think it's critical. I generally center in Y-axis first, snug that down, then center on the X, then re-check the Y. So I think in terms of 4-quadrants like a 4 jaw chuck centering. Having 3 t-slots doesn't prevent that same technique, but it can get confusing if you don't force yourself to ignore the fact that there are only 3 t-slots on the rotary. I suppose there is an argument to be made that 4 slots gives more options for clamping when a chuck is not used. By that logic, 6 would be even better.
The center of the HV-8 is MT3 taper, but it isn't very deep. A standard MT3 arbor is too long and will need to be cut shorter - they are hardened so I used an angle grinder with cut-off disk. That MT3 center can be really handy in mounting things you want to more quickly add/remove. I can imagine a 4" chuck on an MT3 mount being ideal if 4" is a big enough chuck for your work. This is an example - non-rotating type.
I can confirm that my HV-8 takes these specific t-nuts. At least the 4-slot version does.
This is the dividing plate system for the HV-8 - they can be hard to source.
Rotagrip in the UK carries a lot of Vertex stuff and I order from them often. They ship promptly to the US at reasonable prices. They also carry the Royal EasyChange system at prices about half what they are in the US.
If you get to the bottom of the number of slots confusion, I'd be interested in knowing what's up.
BTW, be careful - there are counterfit Vertex rotaries on eBay. The Vertex brand is so much better than the Phase II, it's almost shocking.
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2015
- Messages
- 2,079
I would talk to Matt directly. He has supplied Vertex in the past.
PM carries the HV-8 with 4 t-slots, but lead time is 4 months out. Another company has the 3 t-slot version. It appears the 10-inch and larger tables has 6 t-slots.
I don't have any experience with a rotary table. I've watched enough setup videos to get a good idea of what it takes to set one up for concentricity. I don't have a lathe to turn any sort of spindle to aid in the setting up process, but mastering setup is good learning. The reason for looking into a rotary table is that I am planning to make a quill collar for the PM-833T to install a Z-axis DRO eventually. Besides, a rotary table is a necessary accessories for the mill.
Thanks David for all the links. I am still in the beginning phase of tooling up for the PM-833T.
How does it work with Rotagrip? I tried putting some items in the shopping cart, but there is no option to change the currency to USD? There is also the UK VAT, which I don't think apply to USA buyer.
I don't have any experience with a rotary table. I've watched enough setup videos to get a good idea of what it takes to set one up for concentricity. I don't have a lathe to turn any sort of spindle to aid in the setting up process, but mastering setup is good learning. The reason for looking into a rotary table is that I am planning to make a quill collar for the PM-833T to install a Z-axis DRO eventually. Besides, a rotary table is a necessary accessories for the mill.
Thanks David for all the links. I am still in the beginning phase of tooling up for the PM-833T.
How does it work with Rotagrip? I tried putting some items in the shopping cart, but there is no option to change the currency to USD? There is also the UK VAT, which I don't think apply to USA buyer.
That's weird. I emailed PM sales and received a reply that PM sells Vertex, but the lead time is 4 months away. I plan to just wait. But with ztr10's statement, I am now baffled.
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- Dec 26, 2015
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Example: Vertex dividing plates for the HV-8. Listed at 99 pound sterling including 20% VAT. You don’t pay VAT, so the net is 80 pounds which is $108. Plus shipping. In my experience for things that are not super heavy, the VAT is roughly equivalent to the shipping. So that would be $135 including shipping. For something heavy like the HV-8 I would email them and ask for a shipping cost estimate before purchase. They can charge on USA Visa/MasterCard. I emailed them that info in two separate emails splitting the card number - or you can call them on Skype/WhatsApp. They keep my VISA on file, and I use a VISA that does not apply a foreign exchange fee (Capital One, but terms vary from issuer to issuer).
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2015
- Messages
- 2,079
This photo series might be useful to you. It’s how I put a DRO on the quill of my RF-45.