Why no small high-quality lathes?

[mikey]

bought a chinese mini that has no measurable runout on the MT5 taper .. now to find a chuck to match!

Impressive! An 8" lathe for under $1000.00 with an MT5 spindle taper and a 1.5" spindle bore! And you say it has zero spindle run out? Even more impressive. I have to admit that I have never seen an Asian lathe with these features at this price level.

Specs like this ordinarily would require a heavy duty precision hardened and ground spindle running in Class P6 (or better) precision roller bearings; such an assembly alone would likely cost what your entire lathe cost. I'm not doubting you but I am wondering how they pulled it off.

With regard to the chuck, how does your chuck mount? If you tell me that this as a D1-camlock spindle then my jaw will officially hit the floor!

 

[Mr. Science]

Impressive! An 8" lathe for under $1000.00 with an MT5 spindle taper and a 1.5" spindle bore! And you say it has zero spindle run out? Even more impressive. I have to admit that I have never seen an Asian lathe with these features at this price level.

Specs like this ordinarily would require a heavy duty precision hardened and ground spindle running in Class P6 (or better) precision roller bearings; such an assembly alone would likely cost what your entire lathe cost. I'm not doubting you but I am wondering how they pulled it off.

With regard to the chuck, how does your chuck mount? If you tell me that this as a D1-camlock spindle then my jaw will officially hit the floor!

WELL - i was looking at a lot of the north american lathes in the $2000 - 4000 range (see also precison mattews and bolton etc) and noticed that they bore an out-and-out similarity to this chinese housing body (look at the controller housing - note the display and curvature of the panel etc) - and there were a few chinese imports on amazon of a similar design - so i went on alibaba and found a ton of these MX-210V and MX180 models (also noticed they were being sold in england and australia under a few different trade names) - i was going to go with a much smaller taper/bore version that had a free 4 jaw thrown in for about 1100 total - i actually BOUGHT that but managed to find this one and get out of my purchase (since I was looking for a bigger spindle bore) ...

as for the chuck and spindle - i can't tell you much about it as i don't know much about spindle design etc - it's a 5 inch diameter spindle with three mounting holes places equidistantly around the perimeter and an ancillary fourth hole between two of them - there's a centering flange located about 5/8" from the perimeter where the thickness of the spindle mounting plate increases a bit .. probably not the mount you're looking for i'm guessing .. a picture's worth a thousand words i guess so maybe this will be useful ... (?) - likely not what you're looking for ...


i'm guessing these housings just roll off the mill as it were - and models are kind of randomly thrown together out of a kit of parts - whatever happens to be available - some better and some worse - with no particular reflection on the price - could be they were leftover builds for a more expensive north american lathe that were remaindered and were sold off to a wholesaler who decided to market it on ebay as a 'woodworking lathe' ... not sure really .. i can only speculate

 

[mikey]

There are NO North American lathes in the 2K to 4K range, only Asian imports sold by US companies.

The spindle face is unusual. It has the typical Asian 3 hole mount but the threaded stud isn't common. That "centering flange" is probably a very large register that centers the chuck on the spindle. This is NOT a camlock spindle. What this means to you is that the only way to fit a high quality chuck to your lathe is to find a back plate that fits your spindle mount and mount a flat back chuck to it. Good flat back chucks are commonly available but I know of no direct mount chuck of good quality that is made to fit your spindle.

I don't think it is thrown together, not something like this. I think this is a clever marketing step by some smart Chinese guy who knows that a large spindle bore will attract buyers given that the typical 8" lathe spindle bore is somewhere around an inch. They also threw a 5" chuck on it, a size that is usually found on 10" lathes. Again, this is marketing more than practical because the jaws will hit the ways before you can really use all the capacity.

If you ever find the manual or look inside the headstock, please let us know the spindle diameter near the front spindle bearing. If the numbers on the bearing are visible, note that, too. If this is a heavy duty spindle with decent bearings then the guys need to know about it. No offense meant but this falls into the "too good to be true" category and I'm really curious to see how they pulled this off.

 

[ThinWoodsman]

the chinese lathes are fairly rough out of the box but should clean up nicely if you care to bother yourself about it ... the 'domestic' versions of these have had a little of this done already - is it worth paying double the sticker price for? that's up to you.

Even then, you're taking your chances. My first lathe was from MicroMark, a notch more expensive because supposedly it's ready-to-go when it arrives. This one never could make a decent cut in anything but small-diameter (< .5") aluminum. Now that I've got a proper lathe to compare it to, I can see where everything is wrong. Pretty much every bearing surface on the carriage has to be redone, and the gibs are extremely shoddy. Slowly rebuilding it, I'm sure a decent lathe can be made out of what I am essentially considering a rough casting - but that's not what I ordered.

 

[astjp2]

Find a Hardinge HVL, its small, under 25" between the spindle bore and uber precise. Used run about $5K

 

[Dan_S]

Find a Hardinge HVL, its small, under 25" between the spindle bore and uber precise. Used run about $5K

I assume you mean an HLV?

Every time I've seen one of those lately, they have been trashed by previous owners.

 

[Cooter Brown]

Hardinge made some of the smallest lathes, and they are some of the best machines ever made...

Jet PTL59 Lathe Variable Speed 5C Collet 30” Bedway hardinge cross slide turret | eBay

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HARDINGE Precision Bar & 2nd Operation DV-59, DSM-59 Turret Lathe | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for HARDINGE Precision Bar & 2nd Operation DV-59, DSM-59 Turret Lathe at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

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0.5HP Hardinge HSL SPEED LATHE, 5C-Collet Closer, 1/2 HP, Factory Floor | eBay

MODEL: HSL, S/N: HSL-5C-937-0. HARDINGE SPEED LATHE. HARDINGE 5C-LEVER TYPE COLLET CLOSER. HARDINGE FACTORY FLOOR STAND. SPINDLE CAP. w/ROUND 5C COLLETS. 1-1/16". w/HEXAGON 5C COLLETS. 7/8". w/SQUARE 5C COLLETS. 3/4".

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[Dan_S]

Hardinge made some of the smallest lathes, and they are some of the best machines ever made...

All of those except the last one are second op lathes so pretty much useless for a hobbyist imo, and the last one is listed for $24k.

 

[Mr. Science]

There are NO North American lathes in the 2K to 4K range, only Asian imports sold by US companies.

The spindle face is unusual. It has the typical Asian 3 hole mount but the threaded stud isn't common. That "centering flange" is probably a very large register that centers the chuck on the spindle. This is NOT a camlock spindle. What this means to you is that the only way to fit a high quality chuck to your lathe is to find a back plate that fits your spindle mount and mount a flat back chuck to it. Good flat back chucks are commonly available but I know of no direct mount chuck of good quality that is made to fit your spindle.

I don't think it is thrown together, not something like this. I think this is a clever marketing step by some smart Chinese guy who knows that a large spindle bore will attract buyers given that the typical 8" lathe spindle bore is somewhere around an inch. They also threw a 5" chuck on it, a size that is usually found on 10" lathes. Again, this is marketing more than practical because the jaws will hit the ways before you can really use all the capacity.

If you ever find the manual or look inside the headstock, please let us know the spindle diameter near the front spindle bearing. If the numbers on the bearing are visible, note that, too. If this is a heavy duty spindle with decent bearings then the guys need to know about it. No offense meant but this falls into the "too good to be true" category and I'm really curious to see how they pulled this off.

no offense taken! i spent a good long time trying to educate myself about what was out there ... i considered the emco lathes and small hardinges ... i looked for second hand larger lathes including atlases, colchesters and the like (found nothing below 3000 or so locally though and transportation is a problem as my truck is in the shop) ... i was looking at the 7x14 lathes but figured its too much work to get it to where i wanted it . i figured if i could find a solid chinese mini with flexibility then thats what i would get. i cant say im totally unhappy with this one and its much cheaper than i was willing to spend ... if i discover something especially intesting or important/useful about this one i wil let you know.

as for the spindle ... iits sil not clear to me whether the pic is showing the spindle itself or just a backplate ... all i know about the bearing is that its a tapered roller bearing and the spindle has a 38mm pass through. if i end up taking it apart i will let you know. i am sure the bearings are mostly crap but if it lasts me a few years ill be happy .... as it stands the spindle/backplate are solid as a rock and seem to run true,, which is all i realy care about at this point ... and heck... at that price i can afford to take a risk.

when i say 'thrown together' i do not mean 'without care' ... but rather i noticed that there are many out there with the same housing but different and smaller spindles, longer bedways etc etc ... so its a bit 'mix amd match' if you see what im getting at!

 

[Mr. Science]

There are NO North American lathes in the 2K to 4K range, only Asian imports sold by US companies.

The spindle face is unusual. It has the typical Asian 3 hole mount but the threaded stud isn't common. That "centering flange" is probably a very large register that centers the chuck on the spindle. This is NOT a camlock spindle. What this means to you is that the only way to fit a high quality chuck to your lathe is to find a back plate that fits your spindle mount and mount a flat back chuck to it. Good flat back chucks are commonly available but I know of no direct mount chuck of good quality that is made to fit your spindle.

as for the 'north american lathes' - yes that was my point - they are all 'asian' ...

i just had a look around ebay and finding many chucks that should fit ... SHOULD .. they look the part ... but being 'good' is a whole nother ballgame ... https://www.ebay.com/itm/K12-125-12...AOSwu9Jb-7EN:sc:FedExHomeDelivery!90028!US!-1