Welding for beginner question

[Ray C]

Guys,.

I'm sure the more experienced welders out there know this but, it's worth mentioning again that fresh air and fire extinguishers are a fact of life when welding.

There are different hazards for each process. The coating on welding rods have all kinds of metals, polymers etc. The flux core of MIG wire has it's set of chemicals that no normal person can spell or pronounce. With TIG, it's just you, heat and the metal and inert gasses. I use mainly Argon/Helium mix -sometimes CO2. There is virtually no smoke. Just burn-off from whatever contaminants are on the surface. -But I still make sure there is open air in the area (TIG cannot be done well with wind blowing). Still though, you always need to know what material you're welding for your own safety and to do the job right. -And if you're new to welding, stay away from critical things like trailer hitches etc. that could cost someone injury or death. Things like that need to have properly beveled edges and most often need to be annealed and re-hardened once they been touched by high heat.

While you are leaning, practice on scrap and take the time to grind off and inspect your welds. And once you've done that, put the piece in a vise and try to bend/destroy it. I feel this is very important learning aspect.


Ray

 

[xman_charl]

I have stick, mig, tig welders.

For me, mig was easy to learn.

I finally got the fume problem sorted out when
stick welding. I got filters I wear under my helmet, did
not completely solve the fume problem.

That yellow harbor fright ventilator did the job. Just put it on
my welding table, high 1575 cfm, low 1400 cfm, no more whoop de
doos... or weld outside, which I can't do where I live.

Charl

 

[Ulma Doctor]

It comes down to materials to be welded and amount of money you want to spend:

Tig- by far can weld the most numerous metals and alloys, difficult for the beginner...learn to braze first then learn to tig weld. A good set up to weld alloys can cost into the thousands complete with high frequency starting and adjustable square wave output. All position welding is possible. Highest strength welds 100% penetration is possible.parts needed to be welded must be spotless.
best looking welds

Stick- if heat distortion as not an issue, or if welding outdoors, or on poor quality/dirty materials, or very thick materials... stick would be my choice. a little hard to learn for first timers, opinions differ, but,i would recommend trying to weld A/C first,you can pick the units up a little cheaper and they seem to last forever, then graduate to D/C, the reason being arc blow in out of position welding can be tricky. All positions are possible with some rods, where others are position specific. High strength at the cost of high heat, lots of clean up between passes.D/C reverse polarity welding penetration very high ,about 10% higher than A/C.

Mig w/Gas- By far the most versatile ,fastest, cleanest, easiest to learn welding processes available. With a change of gas, & wire you can weld many alloys precisely with a little practice. these units can be had cheeply, but you get what you pay for. This is my process of choice for speed and moderate strength and less general heat at the cost of loss of depth penetration. Can be learned in literally hours. Must be used indoors or without wind, parts need to be clean.

Flux Core Mig- Another excellent invention for outdoor, crappy fit up, dirty, get er done work. Most buildings iron connections are Flux Core process welded and Radiograph inspected immediatly out here on the West Coast.Very good for out or position work, a little smokier than the gas mig process, but with very high quality,pretty welds in wind on poor or dirtier materials.
lower heat less distortion.

if i had to pick one process and could never weld another way, i would have to choose Tig for the variety of materials and positions and weld penetration. the heat control is pinpoint, the flux core mig a close second because of speed and versatility with low heat distortion, with the ability to do high quality work quickly with low quality/poor fit up ,dirty material.

thanks for reading
mike)

 

[SE18]

I'm tending to TIG now. I don't have lots of dough to burn but Harbor Freight has a $400 TIG/Stick unit.

http://www.harborfreight.com/tig-mma-inverter-welding-machine-with-digital-readout-98233.html

and one for $200
http://www.harborfreight.com/240-volt-inverter-arc-tig-welder-66787.html

They look to be the same except one has DRO

So these units will weld thick steel I take it B/C they're TIGs. Do tigs need a gas cannister (because the work gas is in TIG)?

Thanks

Dave

 

[Ray C]

Yes. Tig requires (typically) Argon, Co2 or Helium. Usually Argon or Ar/C02 mix.

Hope you realize that no HF TIG units work on Aluminum...

Others may disagree but, I found HF welders terribly unreliable.

Ray

I'm tending to TIG now. I don't have lots of dough to burn but Harbor Freight has a $400 TIG/Stick unit.

http://www.harborfreight.com/tig-mma-inverter-welding-machine-with-digital-readout-98233.html

and one for $200
http://www.harborfreight.com/240-volt-inverter-arc-tig-welder-66787.html

They look to be the same except one has DRO

So these units will weld thick steel I take it B/C they're TIGs. Do tigs need a gas cannister (because the work gas is in TIG)?

Thanks

Dave

 

[Ulma Doctor]

I'm tending to TIG now. I don't have lots of dough to burn but Harbor Freight has a $400 TIG/Stick unit.

http://www.harborfreight.com/tig-mma-inverter-welding-machine-with-digital-readout-98233.html

and one for $200
http://www.harborfreight.com/240-volt-inverter-arc-tig-welder-66787.html

They look to be the same except one has DRO

So these units will weld thick steel I take it B/C they're TIGs. Do tigs need a gas cannister (because the work gas is in TIG)?

Thanks

Dave

hey dave, the difference is the DRO as you pointed out and the amps the cheaper one (i own one) is a 130 amp unit
the one with the DRO is a 160 amp unit, that's the difference.
Thick is a relative term, don't think you are going to weld 1" plate effectively, but you can weld up to 3/8 with a little practice.
if you have some 1" stuff to weld up, ditch the tig torch on the same welder, pick up the stinger and weld with rod.
you'll have a pretty low duty cycle, but just remember don't weld for more than 2 minutes at a time at max amps.
you will have to scratch start your tig arc, unless you have a geek friend that could wire in a high frequency start circuit.
yes the tig requires bottles and can be expensive at the wrong places.
the welder is usable in both dc stick and tig welding, a good choice to start out with
you should stick to welding steel until you get to learn, but there are other alloy rods available.

most important, get the best welding hood lenses and eye protection you can afford.
good luck!)
mike

 

[JOSHUAZ2]

So these units will weld thick steel I take it B/C they're TIGs. Dave

No tig is well suited for small and intricate welding but is the slowest of all methods and poorest at thick materials.

Save enough to get a 230 volt mig. the Hobart handler 230 comes to mind. I have a small 110 volt astro I purchased to weld while visiting a relative in Fl. I
have used it rarely but loan it out a lot and it is still running fine after 20 years. I would run away from any harbor freight type welder.

But the first thing I would do is take a class or find someone who has different types of welders and try each one and see which one suits you best.

I grew up stick welding and did it for a living off and on all my life, during that time I also did production MIG and TIG and I still will stick weld if I have a choice. TIG welding unless it's required is a waste of time. Everyone flocks to MIG because it's easy to get a good looking weld. weld strenth and looks don't always go hand in hand and if you don't understand the mechanics of welding mig makes it easy to get a good looking, bad weld. I would say that my welding time is spent 49% stick 49% mig 2% everything else.

hope this helps
Roy

 

[xman_charl]

I got that hf tig, ( Harbor Freight has a $400 TIG/Stick unit.) Mostly just use the stick feature.

Have also had the lincoln tombstone, and their 225 smaller arc. Good welders, but heavy to move around.
So those heavy beasts are gone. The hf is easy to move and its DC.


Mig units...lincoln sp 85 110 volt and newest 180 mig 220 harbor fright... that thing had to play around with
it to get it working right.

A lincoln power mig 180c is about $770+. Got metal wire feed housing, not plastic like hf. Heat switch is
multi position, no clicks when adjusting head.

good luck

Charl

 

[jocat54]

I can stick weld and O/A weld okay (not certified or anything) but okay for me. I HAD a cheap HF flux core welder that I couldn't do anything with. Key word here is HAD.
I really wanted to learn to mig weld and bought a Hobart Handler 210MVP and started with flux core wire. I could at least weld two pieces together. After a lot of reading about argon mix I bit the bullet and bought a small bottle (80). All I can say is WOW! What a difference the gas makes. I think now I will really enjoy learning to mig weld.

 

[Abom79]

Im a little late for the party guys, and alot of you have given some good advice. But I have to add that flux-core wire WITH gas is an excellent way to weld steel, specificaly anything over 1/4" thick. Ive been using it on my Millermatic 251 for years now. You get a better penetration with the flux-core then that of the solid wire. Plus it makes some pretty welds. I have many pictures to share of my work if needed.

As for solid wire mig welding, you can buy a spool of aluminum bronze and do build-up work. This is something I have to do often. Weld up the bronze wear rings on tubes and machine them back to spec. But you have to be carefull, its nasty stuff and you have to wear a respirator. Use 100% argon for the inert gas.