Welding for beginner question

S

SE18

Active User
Registered
Joined
Feb 26, 2012
Messages
758
A friend of mine down the street owns a South Bend 9A, same model as I have. He welds a lot of parts for the lathe, from mill attachments (2 of them) to a follower rest and many more accessories.

I'd like to do the same. Not a requirement but would be nice to weld some smaller train hobby items for my 1:13.7 scale outdoor railroad (structures, steel RR frames and so on).

I tried a MIG but jammed up the nozzle with hot metal and didn't really like it b/c it couldn't weld thick pieces.

So I'm thinking of stick welding. I was told not to get Harbor Freight so I may try for 2nd hand stick welder from Craig's list as I don't plan on spending more than about $300 not including face mask and welding supplies.

I was thinking about oxy-acetyline, but tending more to stick welding.

I wired 235 Volt in the garage. My next door neighbor has stick welded in the Marines and offered to show me how.

Does this sound like a good plan?

Happy New Year!

DaveV
 
You should really keep working on your mig skills. You may have to get a bigger machine for heavier stuff but mig is much more versatile than stick. Is your machine 110 volt? gas or flux or both? There is a chart inside your wire door for settings, this should get you close. Also buy some nozzle jell and anti splatter. When welding thicker stuff bevel the edges at the joint. Don't give up.
 
Hmmmm... The kind of things you want to weld (small piece fabrication etc) are best done with TIG because of it's precise nature. For many people (but of course not all) TIG is is a little hard to learn if you're not already familiar with other welding techniques.

Assuming you can thread a needle using chop-sticks, you can do some light-precision work with stick but, it would not be the preferred choice by most people's standards.

-Can't comment on MIG because everthing I do is either very precise or very heavy duty and TIG and stick fit suit those needs. I don't have a MIG unit.

Stay away fromt the harbor freight and/or Chicago Electric units. I went through 2-3 units in a similar number of years. -Pure crap in my experiences.


Ray
 
With stick welding you can do a lot more than MIG, but it requires a much higher skill level. A certified pipe welder commands a very high salary, but it takes years of training and practice to achieve this level of skill. If you buy a basic AC electric welding machine you will be limited on the type of welding rods that you can run. You can't run 70 series welding rod on an AC machine, and this is really the best rod available when it comes to strong welds, 70 series rod is also the most difficult rod to master. For a little more money you can can get an AC/DC electric welding machine that does offer a lot more flexibility. If you should choose stick welding, check the duty cycle on the machine you are thinking of purchasing, the lower the cycle the shorter amount of time you can weld before stopping to let the machine cool down. That being said, with proper training and a good machine you will get a better weld with stick, but for the home shop I would a recommend a good quality MIG welder.
 
thanks; some of the pieces I'm working with are up to an inch thick (mild steel) I should have mentioned. I think someone said you could build up layers and creatively match the 2 pieces with angled cuts. Then MIG would work. I'm assuming you'd have to add gas to MIG?

The other thing I had problems with with MIG was the face shield darkening so much it was hard to see the work. I guess that would occur with stick too?
 
I would not recommend Oxy-Acetylene welding for anything structural. Heat affected zone is too large, and you are likely to decarburize steel. Its really only used for sculputure AFAIK. Don't get me wrong, a torch is very useful for cutting, brazing, soldering, pre-heating, etc. Just wouldn't recommend it for welding.

Mig is probably the easiest way to stick two pieces of metal together. Machines are usually rated at a particular metal thickness. This does not meant that you can't for example, weld 2 pieces of 3 inch plate together with a welder rated at 1/4 inch, the rating is the largest piece you can weld in a single pass. So for larger pieces you run multiple passes. Arcing the tips is not uncommon, they are replacable.

As far as stick goes, it has it's place, mostly for larger items in steel. The smallest rods I know of that are commercially available are 1/16". I don't have a good sense of what a 1:13 scale railroad looks like; maybe 1/16" rods would work well for you? I would recommend waiting for an old Lincoln on craigslist. They come up pretty often, as lots of folks are switching to MIG or TIG.

For really small parts, I agree TIG is probably your best bet. With a good machine you have pinpoint, very accurate heat control, and you can weld anything steel to magnesium. Tig machines are probably the most expensive, and require the most skill to use effectively. One a scale, I would rate things from easiest to hardest

Oxy-Acetylene
MIG
SMAW (Stick)
TIG

I have done some of all of them, only a bit of TIG. I have a MIG welder in the shop, and it's amazing how nice it is to stick two pieces of metal together in a matter of minutes. On several occasions I have welded up a basic shape, and then machined to finished size.
 
My first welder was an AC/DC stick unit. It is great for the big heavy stuff and for running nickel rod on cast iron, or for running some hard facing rod on loader buckets, dozer blades, etc. Welding one inch plates will take multiple passes with stick, just like with MIG, and the slag will be harder to clean off of the stick welds. If you need top quality welds you had better practice alot or slag inclusions will be everywhere.

I eventually purchased a MIG unit, running gas instead of flux core. It does 99% of my work and leaves a squeaky clean bead that can easily be welded over for multipass work. I find that I rarely need to weld material thicker than 1/4" and the MIG unit handles up to 1/4" with ease. The MIG unit is also easier to learn to use than stick, not to mention that you have to be very careful about rod storage for your stick welder, or the rod coatings will absorb moisture, ruining the rod.

Oxyacetylene is nice for brazing and silver soldering, or cutting large pieces of plate, but I cannot warrant purchasing one when I can build a propane torch much cheaper. The propane torch will get hot enough to silver solder most objects, and that is usually enough for my purposes.

Now if I really wanted the ultimate, I would purchase a small TIG unit, but I really cannot justify that expense either.
 
I'll add my vote for MIG as a home-shop welding method, if you're only going to have one. You'll get 'good enough' at MIG a lot sooner than with other methods, although, as mentioned several times, some of the other methods will do more, once you reach professional standards.

With MIG units, you have two choices - solid wire with gas, and flux-core (You can also use gas with flux-core, but that is usually a professional thing.) If you're going to be welding outdoors, any breeze will blow the gas envelope away from your arc zone, allowing air to get to the hot metal, ruining the weld. Outdoors, flux-core is the only way to MIG (It actually loses the MIG designation if you don't use gas. Metal Inert Gas)

Most auto-darkening helmets have adjustable darkness levels. Try adjusting it until you can see what you need to. Don't turn it too low - it's there to protect your eyes.

No matter which welding method you choose, none of them will do a good job if you don't take the time to learn how. At the very least, that means burning a lot of rod or wire. Don't try to weld anything that matters until someone else (who knows) would say you're getting good. I've seen some pretty bad (and dangerous) welds done as first attempts at welding, one things that should never be put into service.

Another option, if it's available in your area, is to take an evening welding course. One method only, like MIG or stick. I'm not talking trade school. Just to get you up to speed on your chosen method.

One of the most useful functions in my shop is the ability to stick two pieces of steel together and know they'll stay that way.
 
About oxy acetylene welding: Most aircraft with a welded 4130 chromoly steel tube frame are welded with OA, including both of mine. Some prefer, and can afford, a good Tig unit. Keep in mind that this is .035 - .058 wall tube, some plate up to .125. The reason OA works so well in these structures is that the weld is more malleable and much less prone to cracking. In this application, the weld is much stronger than the steel. That said, welding heavy steel plate (inches thick) would take a heck of a lot of heat with OA. I agree, Mig may be your best choice for your application and budget. A tech college adult ed class in welding would also be a good investment, to avoid frustration and wasted metal and time.

Tom
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top