VFD's: Huanyang (eBay) vs AC-Tech SMVector, Teco, Hitachi, etc...beyond 3hp

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jimbojones132

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Hi folks

I seen this topic covered before on an 'academic' basis...but I was looking for feedback on a more practical level. Essentially, I'm looking for feedback from people that have actual used multiple brands of VFD's and particularly if they have compared 'brand name' models again the (eBay) Huanyang-branded ones.

So that we can jump right in to the heart of the matter, I consider the following concepts already apparent and therefore not needing to be re-stated:
1) " you get what you pay for" - this concept is very clear in my mind and I'm not looking to be cheap and in fact, all the VFD's I already own are only 'brand name'

2) "import" comments: I doubt that almost ANY VFD doesn't have some 'import' components and it'll simply a fact of life so no sense in splitting hairs about where things are sourced

3) opinions, opinions, opinions. I've got plenty...but I REALLY want to hear some facts. Actual bench-testing results would be GREAT!

My specific interest is this: I only have single phase 220v available and Teco & AC-Tech VFD's all have models to go up to/do not exceed 3hp rating on this type of input power. However, I may need to get up to 5HP output if I buy a new lathe.

1) On brand-name VFD's, if you want more than 3hp output, you need 3 phase input power. However, Huanyang VFD's claim to provide 4 and 5 HP output capability while still on single-phase input power. I have read that their 5hp model is simply just a 'badging' ploy and people claim to have tested them and they cannot provide actual 5hp output power. I am therefore ALSO concerned that the 4HP model's capabilities are 'overstated'.

2) People typically recommend on de-rerating the Huanyang VFD's by up to 50% rated capacity...which means a 4 or 5hp VFD of theirs is really only 2/2.5 HP useful if you want it to be 'reliable'. Is this actually the case? If so, does that mean my only option is a rotary phase converter to get enough output power?!? Am I missing another brand or option?
 
You can use larger 3phase name brand VFDs on single phase. Derate Them by 50% put your single phase across phase 1 and 3. Sometimes you have to place a jumper between phases 1 and 2 to fool the vfd into believing there is 3 phase power input. There are a few exceptions. The Larger teco N3 3 phase does not work well with single phase input in constant torque but works fine in v/hz mode. If you go with a larger 3 phase unit I like the Hitachi wj200 line. When you decide to go to a larger motor contact your supplier or the manufacturer for the proper VFD for your application. Bob
 
I hear you re: upsize the VFD to 3-ph input model, then derate by 1/2. This puts me in the 10HP range and approx $1K+ (I'm in Canada so indeed it's going to be closer to $1.5K). For $200 the Huanyang looks like attractive but again...no idea if it can live up to its claims.
 
At the core of these things is a microprocessor and I belive the most common one is made by Mitsubishi. You'll find that most VFDs use that part at the core and many brands have "clone" boards inside them -the Huangyang being a clone. Given this, quality of components comes into play -you get what you pay for. Teco, Hitachi, Delta and the units sold by Automation Direct are known to be pretty good and I have a few of them.

Old too soon and smart too late... I've discovered it's best to get a particular brand and stick with it. That way, you don't need to learn different programming interfaces.

The only time you need to derate units is when you get above 3 HP. 5 & 7 HP needs to be derated about 25-30%. Above that, you really should be using the correct VFD preferably with 3 phase input. If budget allows, just buy 3 HP units even for your smaller motors. This gives you the option of re-using it for other purposes.

So, the fact is, I have Huanyuang, Delta, Automation Direct -and another brand that escapes me at the moment... -all ranging from 1 to 3 HP and I use them all at rated power and they ALL work fine and have done so for 3 years. I personally find RPC way too much messing around and the last thing I need in my shop is another 500lbs of mechanical equipment that needs service -or heaven forbid, need to be moved for some reason. VFDs are cheap. If you stick with a name brand and get the unit that serves your needs (constant torque or not) it will work fine. My friend has a food processing company that uses probably 100 various VFD units and about 1-2 go bad per year. It's a commodity item...

Ray
 
jimbojones132 said:
I hear you re: upsize the VFD to 3-ph input model, then derate by 1/2. This puts me in the 10HP range and approx $1K+ (I'm in Canada so indeed it's going to be closer to $1.5K). For $200 the Huanyang looks like attractive but again...no idea if it can live up to its claims.
Click to expand...
For me the choice would be clear. I'd get the much cheaper $200 unit and try it out, it will protect itself against overloads. If it doesn't work as you like save it for another time and then spend the big bucks.
 
The Hitachi wj220-055 7.5 hp constant torque 10hp v/hz mode $550 new on ebay right now
Hitachi wj220-075 10hp constant torque 15hp v/hz $650 new on ebay right now
You can also look at Wolf Automation, and Automation Direct for other brands $750 or less.
The biggest cost on vfds are the capacitors they are the life blood of the vfd.
For $200 I doubt you will get high quality capacitors and ibgts.
There is a industry wide problem with cheap and counterfit capacitors causing problems in everything electronic.
Going up 25% in size may not work for you. It takes 1.73 times as much single phase current to provide the same watts of energy as 3 phase power so going up only 25% if you use your motor near it rated hp the vfd will fail early or give your over current faults.
The recommended method for sizing a 3phase VFD being used on single phase is take the motors FLA (amps at full load) double that then find the appropriate size VFD.
example 5hp motor 13.8a x 2 = 27.6a I need a VFD which will output 27.6 amps
There is a added benefit to using the larger 3 phase VFD. It will with the appropriate braking resistor provide superior stopping power when you need to stop a large rotating force fast. Bob
 
Once again I have to agree with 'ol Ray C, Vettbob has some good points also. Largest single phase drive I run is a 5hp Allen Bradley on a vertical bandsaw. Runs great, no problems. But who built it? Rockwell, who owns AB? I doubt it. Hitachi? Thats what I heard but can not prove it. I have been told that the majority of brand name VFDs are Hitachi on the inside. I know SqD Telemecanique (Tele) was that way for a while until they developed their own small HP units. From what I have seen Hitachi builds a pretty bullet proof drive and I have heard nothing but good about TECO but never used one.

I'll be honest, I spent my life fixing things and now would rather use the stuff then work on it. I have no interest in any CHINAMAN product for many many reasons. I will not fix the `trade unbalance by myself but I will try. I don't want the hassles and freight costs of sending stuff back and forth. If I can not afford the cost I will find a different hobby. I do it right or not at all. That's OK, my wife doesn't understand either, and *****es about it all the time too. Its just me.

You are correct also in saying you will not find an all USA made unit. I doubt if all the small pieces parts are even made in the US. But in the long run, support USA made product. All six of the drives I run say AB or SqD Tele on the outside and I have never had a day of regret. I just keep shoveling out the SWARF!
 
The only time you need to derate units is when you get above 3 HP.
- indeed, the point of this thread is how to have power above 3 HP (actually, 5HP)

If budget allows, just buy 3 HP units even for your smaller motors.
- motor in question is stated as being 5 HP and not other need mentioned

Above that, you really should be using the correct VFD preferably with 3 phase input
- again, I've already stated I don't have 3 phase available for input

All good, logical information...but not applicable.
 
jimbojones132 said:
The only time you need to derate units is when you get above 3 HP.
- indeed, the point of this thread is how to have power above 3 HP (actually, 5HP)

If budget allows, just buy 3 HP units even for your smaller motors.
- motor in question is stated as being 5 HP and not other need mentioned

Above that, you really should be using the correct VFD preferably with 3 phase input
- again, I've already stated I don't have 3 phase available for input

All good, logical information...but not applicable.
Click to expand...

Perhaps the glass is always half empty...

In the applicable category was: "5 & 7 HP needs to be derated about 25-30%"
Also applicable was the brand names "Delta, Hitachi and Automation Direct" that I have personal experience with.


Ray
 
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