Used US industrial vs New import....

Bruce,
You bring up a good point.
When looking for a machine tool it is best to avoid a machine that was used in daily production.
My lathe came out of a local college.
Let's see, half the year they are closed, they are usually maintained and they do not perform repetitive tasks which would put more stress on the work zones.
That's good advice
 
Machines do exist that were only driven by an old lady machinist once a week to the grocer and to the local Grainger counter and parked in the garage the rest of the week for years. Sometimes, they're sold in dollars that reflect the state of inflation when they were originally made, which is a real treat. I feel like I got a milling machine like that, which had actually spent the last 20 years in a school district pipefitter's shop just in case they needed it. The only thing I could find on the mill was the expected peppering of shop dust. There were some chips to let me know it had been used, but not enough chips to make me believe the machine is fully broken in.
 
I have both, I have old machines from the 30s, 40s, 50s and 60s, but I also have equipment from the 90s and the 2000s.
to me it comes down to

what are you going to use it for
how big do you want
how much space do you have
how long are you willing to wait

in 1999, I wanted a larger lathe, found noting available at that time, so I bought a Jet, one of the best buys , I’ve ever got. I was so impressed with it I bought a Jet floor standing mill. No issue with either of the actual equipment, the 6” 3 jaw lathe chuck was junk, you could measure the runout with a pocket scale.

I also had 3 bad used lathes, one was totally my fault, one was bought sight unseen and one was a very well done Krylon rebuild, that on a day to day basis, fell apart. The one that was my fault was, I wanted a Monarch lathe, I got a Monarch lathe, just not a viable Monarch lathe, expensive lesson. The used Rockwell lathe was excellent, the Clausing was a project, the guy I sold it to, has it in an almost showroom condition, workable, but further than I wanted to go.
 
Last edited:
If you are considering that TOS lathe, I don't think you could do much better. They make a really nice machine, and that''s a good price for a machine that size. As always check for wear and function. Mike
 
I will put a strong caveat. I made my living as a machinist back in the late 70s and early 80s (before manufacturing crashed in my home town). If you really know what parts should be present, AND you know how to evaluate a used piece of equipment, you know how to check runout and alignment, then a Used machine can be a great choice.

Not everyone does, especially a newbie. If you have a machinist buddy, you can drag him with you and he can examine the lathe. Frequently used lathes are already disconnected from power, so it can be harder to evaluate whether they have certain issues (bearings, gears, etc). The other issue is Space, a lot of these older lathes are quite large, and may have odd requirements, such as 3 phase power. You need to look into this before you open your wallet.
 
pontiac428 said:
Machines do exist that were only driven by an old lady machinist once a week to the grocer and to the local Grainger counter and parked in the garage the rest of the week for years. Sometimes, they're sold in dollars that reflect the state of inflation when they were originally made, which is a real treat. I feel like I got a milling machine like that, which had actually spent the last 20 years in a school district pipefitter's shop just in case they needed it. The only thing I could find on the mill was the expected peppering of shop dust. There were some chips to let me know it had been used, but not enough chips to make me believe the machine is fully broken in.
Click to expand...

Both my lathe and mill are in the “only driven on Sundays” type of condition.
Lathe is a 1975 South Bend 10K. I’m technically the third owner but the second owner was a shop teacher and he couldn’t get clearance to use the lathe in his school. He said he never even plugged it in. It still has flaking marks the full length of the bed.

Mill is the same story, I’m the third owner. It’s a 1980 mill/drill. The second had it for five years and only used it as a drill. He had no idea that it had a drawbar because he never needed to change the chuck. It was still covered in cosmoline and the ways are like new.

I wouldn’t change a thing we’re I to do it again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
After re-reading the thread, I wanted to offer some sort of solution to the question. Obviously (at least to me and DavidR8) great examples of used machines are out there for prices often better than new. Old machines are substantial and robust. There can be a lack of documentation available on less-popular old machines. New machines come delivered with a warranty and dial-up customer support. New machines are shiny and can be made to order. But @addertooth brought up the key point, and that is the used machine needs to be evaluated. Many potential buyers feel that they cannot provide an adequate evaluation due to lack of specialized knowledge. I don't think that has to be the end of it. Those shopping for a machine can study the field to make a good model selection and to choose a machine in the right size. Manuals are available in pdf from sites like vintagemachinery or lathes.co.uk. This site has a good library too. Manuals can be downloaded and studied, operating instructions and parts diagrams can give you the ability to figure out the wear points and learn how the specific machine is used. With a few tools and indicators, you should be able to run quite a few meaningful tests on a used machine to make a satisfactory assessment leading to the right purchase choice.
 
Another vote for old American iron. Among the machine tools in my shop are 2 lathes, 2 mills, 2 drill presses, 2 bandsaws, a power hacksaw, a drill sharpener, a die filer, a surface grinder, a shaper, and a belt/disk sander. Of those tools only the drill presses are of foreign origin. The only tool purchased new was one of the drill presses. All the rest are old iron with manufacture dates ranging from 1916 to 1984. Most were purchased from shops upgrading to larger or CNC equipment, or local schools.

They all needed a cleaning when they arrived, but none needed major repairs. Of the 3 I've had the longest the Bridgeport mill and Seneca Falls lathe have been in the shop 20+ years. One of the drill presses has been in the shop 30+ years. In that time between them they have needed less than $100.00 in repairs. I've spent far more on tooling than anything else. The truth be known I've probably spent as much or more for tooling than I did for the machines themselves.
 
Last edited:
If you have the knowledge to evaluate a used machine, or know somebody who can, used machines can be a bargain. If you don't they are a gamble, maybe you get a deal on a good machine, maybe you bought 1000lbs of scrap iron. You will find stories of both, perfect used lathe at a great price and major projects that were priced way too high. Parts on older machines can be harder to get and may be more expensive.

New machines you hopefully get a warranty, parts availability and no wear, but like buying a new car you are paying a premium for being the first owner.

What you are buying makes a difference too, many of the smaller lathes have some give and take. You can find older 9 and 10" lathes with a full quick change gear box, most modern lathes in that class use change gears. On the other hand many of these older lathes use belts to control speed and have a smaller spindle bore of 5/8-3/4". The current new lathes in this size often offer variable speed control and a spindle bore of 3/4-1".

Comparing "hobbyist" grade used machines in the 10-12" range used is about 50% of new, whether used import or used vintage USA, but when you start looking at industrial sized machines you can get a great deal on large machines. Not many people can provide a home for a 2000lb+ machine, so they tend to go fairly cheap. If you look at a Grizzly "Southbend" lathe in the 18" swing class it is a $20-30,000 machine new. You can find old US made 18-20" lathes for as little as $1000 and often $3000-5000 which puts them in the same price range as a new 12x36 and in that case you are certainly getting more machine for the money.

Something to really look at on a used machine is the tooling that comes with it. Getting a nice vintage machine that doesn't come with much may cost you more than the machine just to get your basic tooling package as well as take time as you shop ebay and CL.
 
Aaron_W said:
If you have the knowledge to evaluate a used machine, or know somebody who can, used machines can be a bargain. If you don't they are a gamble, maybe you get a deal on a good machine, maybe you bought 1000lbs of scrap iron. You will find stories of both, perfect used lathe at a great price and major projects that were priced way too high. Parts on older machines can be harder to get and may be more expensive.
Click to expand...
This is the crux of the matter. In the examples I posted, they have videos of the machines running. I imagine I could bring a dial test indicator to check TIR, etc. That's about the extent of my ability. Have not touched a lathe or Mill in 30 years. My inclination is that they will at least be serviceable. And they do have a 30 day return policy, so I could theoretically examine them in depth once I got them. These likely wouldn't be the machines I end up with. I'm hoping to have the shop up within the next year, so purchase is about that far away. They had a beautiful lathe that would have been perfect, but sold it last week.

Aaron_W said:
What you are buying makes a difference too, many of the smaller lathes have some give and take. You can find older 9 and 10" lathes with a full quick change gear box, most modern lathes in that class use change gears. On the other hand many of these older lathes use belts to control speed and have a smaller spindle bore of 5/8-3/4". The current new lathes in this size often offer variable speed control and a spindle bore of 3/4-1".

Comparing "hobbyist" grade used machines in the 10-12" range used is about 50% of new, whether used import or used vintage USA, but when you start looking at industrial sized machines you can get a great deal on large machines. Not many people can provide a home for a 2000lb+ machine, so they tend to go fairly cheap. If you look at a Grizzly "Southbend" lathe in the 18" swing class it is a $20-30,000 machine new. You can find old US made 18-20" lathes for as little as $1000 and often $3000-5000 which puts them in the same price range as a new 12x36 and in that case you are certainly getting more machine for the money.
Click to expand...
That's one thing I have going for me. I'm building my shop, which will be empty, so lots of space. The building will be a steel frame building ~40x70 with 12 ft side walls, but only 40x40 can be dedicated to the shop. More than plenty to start, though I've been told it will be too small if I keep with this. If that happens, I can always move the farm equipment out of the other end and build a new building for them. (wife will love that, so it'd better be many years down the road)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top