Upgrade - Shop Air - Quality 60-80gal compressors?

[Mitch Alsup]

Any thoughts on ways of keeping water out of the tank? As in - getting moisture out of the intake?

On my first job out of college, I worked in a lab where we had such a beast. The air into the compressor went though what looked like a car intake filter, the output of the compressor was routed to a filter system on the wall, and then into the tank. We changed the filters before the tank once a month, and we changed the filters after the tank twice a year.

There were t filters on each bank, water separator, oil separator, and micron filters.

The application required very clean air and constant use (24/7/365).

This took the equivalent of a large closet...........

 

[pontiac428]

Ingersoll-Rand used to make some great stuff. Unfortunately, they are the head of a huge conglomerate of 30-some odd brands that's only concern is to post profits for their shareholders every quarter. I boycott IR because of their losing supreme court case that I think was entitled, "F*%k the worker" where they cut loose a guy the day before his retirement vested so they wouldn't have to pay him. They lost, because that is one of the shallowest things your employer could do. IR also owns Champion.

 

[Gaffer]

Any thoughts on ways of keeping water out of the tank? As in - getting moisture out of the intake? I don't know a whole lot about compressors and drying theory - but water condensing in the tank appears to be the long-term killer of a tank/compressor (why mine isn't safe). I am not sure there is a way to alleviate that? I am familiar with keeping lines dry on the output - that is critical for paint work. Though, at the point I'd upgrade compressors improving the set up I have - and replacing the hoses - would be on order also so as to start fresh.

I like the idea of an in-line oiler, but the other side of that coin is it would have to be bypassed for paint and vac work. So maybe having a manifold where the oiler could sit inline with a tool hose and other uses could pull off the line upstream of the oiler on a dedicated (dry/no lube) hose.

The tank will have a drain in the bottom, likely similar to a petcock. I mounted my compressor on a concrete pad on the outside wall of my garage, so I replaced the valve with a 90* elbow, extension pipe, and a 1/4 turn ball valve. This way I didn't have to reach under the tank. It's easy and convenient. I regularly open the valve for a few seconds to blow out the water. The nice thing about the elbow is that water will collect in it and not the tank between purging. They also sell electric auto-purge valves that replace the petcock. I only turn on my compressor when I'm using it so it doesn't cycle during the night and bother my neighbors, so the automatic valve doesn't make sense for me. The other thing to consider plumbing the water from the purge valve. If your compressor will be indoors, you'll want to plan for that as it's a little messy.

I plumbed my air into and around my garage with drops in all the right places. I used RapidAir's 3/4" Max Line system. My air comes into the garage, passes through a regulator, desiccant dryer system. The mainline runs around the garage at the top of the walls. Each drop has a manual bleed valve that was included with the RapidAir system. I bought it from Northern Tool. The nice thing about plumbing your garage is that you can set up each drop for dedicated purposes - paint, tools requiring regular oiling, etc. There are lots of plan diagrams on the internet.

 

[JohnG]

I have a 5hp, 3 phase, 2 stage Dayton. The inspection date stamped on the tank is 1968. It runs off a rotary phase convertor along with just about everything else in my shop. Mostly I spray varnish with it.
Every now and then I let the tank depressurize and open the drain plug. Before I shut the plug, I run the compressor for a minute or so. This blows out just a bit of nasty sludge each time I do it. I don't know if you are supposed to do this, but I am glad that stuff isn't in the bottom of the tank.

 

[FlyFishn]

I have a 5hp, 3 phase, 2 stage Dayton. The inspection date stamped on the tank is 1968. It runs off a rotary phase convertor along with just about everything else in my shop. Mostly I spray varnish with it.
Every now and then I let the tank depressurize and open the drain plug. Before I shut the plug, I run the compressor for a minute or so. This blows out just a bit of nasty sludge each time I do it. I don't know if you are supposed to do this, but I am glad that stuff isn't in the bottom of the tank.

Have you looked inside the tank with a borescope?

If you are getting sludge out the drain you might want to check the integrity of the tank walls. That might be a frightening contraption to have in your shop...

If the sludge is coming out that means it is developing in the tank. Might be wise to inspect it.

If I could measure the wall thickness of my tank non-destructively, and economically, I would. But since I can't I say its safest to do away with it ASAP. Not sure what to do in the mean time if I have to work on something - I really don't want to pressurize it but I don't have any other way to run air tools until its replaced.

 

[FlyFishn]

I am a fan of Champion and Quincy compressors. I would NOT buy one from a big box store. I purchased my Champion online from TP tools. It is a 19cfm 80 gallon RV series. It runs great. My largest consumer of air is a CNC plasma cutting table. JMO

I checked TP Tools and they also carry FS Curtis. That appears to be a US-made compressor also. Any thoughts on the below at $1600?

FS-Curtis 5HP, 2-Cyl, 2-Stage 60-Gal Air Compressor

A Great Value and Built to Last! You can count on FS-Curtis, just as in 1854, producing reliable long-term, high-quality air compressors that last! Made in USA. CT-Series 5HP, 2-Cyl, 2-Stage 60-Gallon Vertical Model MODEL 8700-60DS SPECS: 5 HP 2-stage 60-gallon vertical ASME tank with...

www.tptools.com

There is a single stage version also for a bit less - $1200.

FS-Curtis 5HP, 4-Cyl, 1-Stage 60-Gal Air Compressor

Perfect for Do-It-Yourselfers and Small Shops! You can count on FS-Curtis, just as in 1854, producing reliable long-term, high-quality air compressors that last! CTS-Series 5HP, 4-Cyl, 1-Stage 60-Gallon Vertical Model MODEL 8700-61DS SPECS: 5 HP 1-stage 60-gallon vertical ASME tank with...

www.tptools.com

I assume the 2 stage designs are better from the stand point of being able to provide higher flows at higher pressures?

 

[Aukai]

I have an 80 gal 5 hp Industrial low RPM quiet power from NAPA, not sure who makes it for them.

 

[mksj]

I do not think the lower cost Curtis compressor is made in the US.

I have had a few 2-stage compressors, it is a matter of how much air, features and price. I figure whatever compressor one buys, I would expect it to probably out live me. Better compressors usually can go 20,000+ hours and are easily serviceable/rebuildable if needed. More important factors are how quiet it is and accessories. I would stick with a 5-7.5 Hp low speed motor (1750 RPM) and low speed pump (500-700 RPM range) highly recommend an after cooler, automatic drain, and magnetic starter. I prefer US made pumps, simple because the pumps will last longer and they tend to be heavier and quieter. Almost all the mainstream compressor brands the lower end have high speed motors/pumps which cause more noise, heat and often have reliability problems. Granted, if you only use it infrequently, just about any compressor will last you many years.

I had a Curtis CA-5 previously in a compact horizontal 60 gallon tank for many years, it was easier to move and less of an issue with toppling over in earthquake territory. No complaints, other than being a bit loud, the CA-5 pump has been around for decades, all cast iron made in the US. Sold it when I moved to Hawaii. Curtis also make a MasterLine pressurized lubed compressor, they are bullet proof, similar to some of the older Quincy compressors.

Currently I have the Champion HR5-8 advantage version, the vertical model would be the VR5-8, they use mag. starters and are available in single phase 5 or 7.5HP. The Advantage (or deluxe) package includes after cooler, automatic drain, low oil pressure switch, isolation pads, etc. They are "assembled" in the US, but often parts are sourced from all over so who knows. This is considered their industrial model series, it is also available in a pressure lube series. They have one piece cylinders and head with a steel liner, so no head gasket, comes with an inter-stage cooler and after cooler, which dramatically reduces the air temperature going into the tank so the water drops out. Mine has an automatic drain valve that works mechanically, but they also have electric ones that cycle at preset intervals. The Champion is a bit quieter than the Curtis, both are very good and will last a lifetime. When I purchased my HR5-8 it specified Baldor motor's but they switched to Marathon, supposedly at the time Baldor was having reliability issues with motor's made in Mexico. I run my compressor on a 50A circuit, probably could get buy with a 40A.

The newer IR compressor (not the industrial ones) seemed to have more negative comments these days, also the lower end Quincy models, but there higher end compressors tend to get much better reviews. They were also more expensive then the Curtis or Champion US made compressors with similar accessories, and Quincy also required you to purchase their service/oil change backs at additional cost to get the full warranty. Another brand that is also considered very good is the Saylor-Beall VT-735-80 compressors, also made in the USA, but like the Quincy they are around $500+ more than the Champion R5-8 series.

Curtis CA Series: CA5 5-HP 80-Gallon UltraPack Two-Stage Air Compressor

FS-Curtis FCA05E57V8U-A2L1XX FS- Curtis CA5+ 5-HP 80-Gallon UltraPack Two-Stage Air Compressor 230V 1-Phase

Buy FS-Curtis FCA05E57V8U-A2L1XX Direct. Free Shipping. Check the FS- Curtis CA5+ 5-HP 80-Gallon UltraPack Two-Stage Air Compressor (230V 1-Phase) ratings before checking out.

www.aircompressorsdirect.com

Curtis ML Series: ML5 5-HP 80-Gallon Pressure Lubricated Two-Stage Masterline Air Compressor (230V 1-Phase)

FS-Curtis FML05D96V8S-A2L1XX ML5 5-HP 80-Gallon Pressure Lubricated Two-Stage Masterline Air Compressor 230V 1-Phase

Buy FS-Curtis FML05D96V8S-A2L1XX Direct. Free Shipping. Check the FS-Curtis ML5 5-HP 80-Gallon Pressure Lubricated Two-Stage Masterline Air Compressor (230V 1-Phase) ratings before checking out.

www.aircompressorsdirect.com

Champion Advantage VR5-8, 5HP, Two-Stage 80-Gallon Vertical Air Compressor Unit With Aftercooler

Champion Advantage VR5-8, 5HP, Two-Stage 80-Gallon Vertical Air Compressor Unit With Aftercooler - Air Power Equipment OKC

10/31/22 In stock in Oklahoma City. Champion R-Series Compressor pumps have a time-tested, proven design. Rugged standard features, a wide selection of configurations, and quality available options make the R-Series compressors the solution to your application. Delivering high performance...

www.aircompressorcfm.com

Saylor-Beall VT-735-80, note things like mag starters, after-coolers, tank drains are all extra.

Saylor-Beall - VT-735-80-1 - Two-Stage Vertical Tank Air Compressor

5 HP, 17.3 CFM, 80 Gallon Tank, 1-Phase, Splash Lubrication - A pressure lubricated air compressor pump uses an oil pump to force lubricating oil to all of the friction points.

westechequipment.com

As far as dry air, you can get a refrigerated air dryer at considerable expense if you need absolutely dry air, followed by a particle filer and coalescing filter. I just use a Norgren dual air filter system and regulator, and between the compressor after-cooler and dual filters I have never had any water in my shop compressor line drains. I picked up the filter's on eBay, you do need to know the specific model numbers, and also the pressure ratings. These have steel bowels with a site gauge, automatic water drains and indicators if the filters are clogged. Surprisingly, I only get a few drops of water in the first particle filter.

 

[Boswell]

I got an old Curtis C90 off of Craigs list a number of years ago. I had to replace the motor some time back and I mounted it on an 80 gal tank but the pump is is great condition and older than I am.

 

[Larry$]

I can tell right off I'm going to be coming from a different perspective. I had a shop with expensive equipment that required continuous air. What that means is that air storage capacity doesn't mean squat. 80 gallon or 200 gallon only means that you might have just a couple of extra minutes of peak air flow. Unless you are running a screw compressor, you should not run a compressor continuously, the heat will degrade the oil, among other issues. A screw can run 24 hours a day. As for single stage or two stage, little is to be gained with a two stage if your CFM requirements are met with a single stage. Compressing air to higher pressures and then using it at only 90 psi wastes energy. But if you only use air very intermittently, having the higher storage pressure will give you some short term cushion. When you go shopping for a compressor, look at the cfm produced at standard conditions, 90 psi. There are a lot of "cheater" "5"hp units out there. Look up what the electrical draw of a quality US made motor has and compare that to the "5" hp or whatever size you are considering. CFM/hp is a starting point for comparisons.

We had two 10hp Quincy's on 120 gal tanks that were OK, but were always running short of air. They were running on an alternator, didn't do much good since both had to run most of the time. Replaced with a 25hp Quincy screw that produced more air @ 125 psi. It was a poor quality machine and suffered several design issues. The 10 HP recips were pretty good. We had an air to air cooler, refrigerated drier, coalescing filter, then line regulator. At expensive machines we had desiccant driers and filters.

If you live in a dry area, water in your air will likely not be much of an issue. Life of air tools, CNCs and the like will be reduced if they are fed wet air. Also painting with wet or contaminated air will introduce defects in the finish. I know of only two ways to get dry air, refrigerated or desiccant. A water trap doesn't dry the air. Ideally you will use a coalescing filter to get rid of oil and most other garbage in the air stream.

Use good system design to minimize problems. Do not use PVC piping. Copper or Aluminum are corrosion resistant. Pex fittings introduce restrictions on air flow so you will need larger sizes to offset. They also cause moisture traps that keep water in the system. Have all lines slope toward drains. Only take air off the top of a pipe, never the bottom. A loop system is best when more than one tool is in use at a time, it also allows a smaller pipe to be used since flow can come from two directions. Kaeser has a very good system design page on their web site. Yes, this post is over the top but it doesn't hurt to have a better understanding of getting the most from your investment in air.