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Tuning the Isacon HY series VFD

Discussion in 'ELECTRICAL ISSUES - POWER YOUR MACHINES & SHOP' started by RandyWilson, May 26, 2017.

  1. RandyWilson

    RandyWilson United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Since I have decided to banish all bad-magic phase twisting devices and only use good-magic, I figure it's time to really learn to tune these Huanyang VFD's. I have two identical ones, HY02D223B, purchased nearly a year apart. I have Googled extensively, but found no helpful information on these units. I have found extensive help on what is apparently an older parameter set. And I've found a few threads with people having massive problems with these newer units, likely because they are trying to set them up via utube and forum experts using the old parameter set rather than reading the manual.

    Many of the basic parameters are pretty self-explanatory. The manual, at least this model/version, isn't as bad as some make it to be. I'm going to start with two questions.

    What would be a likely wording for the carrier signal that is so often mentioned? I don't see anything that I can relate to a carrier.

    PN12 Motor rating frequency. Would this be 60hz for old mill and lathe motors?

    PN19-26 Multi-segment frequency. What is this?


    Okay, okay, that was three questions.
     
  2. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious Active Member

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    Hi Randy,
    Q1- i believe the phrase you are looking for is carrier frequency
    Q2- most likely you will set that to 60Hz.
    unless you have European motors , they are 50Hz
    Q3- i believe that is in reference to ramping of the motor frequencies for starting and stopping.
    you can have the motor start and stop quickly or slowly dependent on the ramp
     
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  3. RandyWilson

    RandyWilson United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Thanks. Start and stop ramps, with optional second stage, are a different set of parameters.


    I'll see if I can get some clean scans of the parameter tables tomorrow.
     
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  4. mksj

    mksj Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    The manuals I have seen for this model have a different set of parameter definitions. So I have attached the manual I have for this model and a possible programming parameter file.

    There is what is called the base frequency which is the motor nameplate base frequency, 60Hz in the US

    The carrier frequency is what the base PWM signal runs at (or frequency of the on/off pulses to simulate the AC wave). Typically the higher the carrier frequency, the quieter the motor will run, but at the possible expense of damaging the wingdings or bearings especially in older motors. If you have an old motor, choose a lower carrier frequency drive. An older motor you would probably stick with 5-8Khz, newer motor 8-12Khz. The lower the frequency the more the motor will whine like a cat in heat, higher frequency is quieter but the motor will run hotter and may be a bit more insulation breakdown. Wire between the VFD and the motor should be rated for a minimum of 600V.

    There are blocks of parameters for different functions;
    One sets acceleration and deceleration (PD014-PD021), another sets multi-speed or fixed speed increments (PD086-PD100), and one sets skip frequencies (start/stop, PD056-PD061) to avoid resonant peaks to name a few.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. RandyWilson

    RandyWilson United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    That appears toi be the info that is all over the net. Unfortunately it does not match this VFD at all. For good or bad, this one has a much simpler parameter set. I got called in to work this morning, I'll try to scan the manual tonight.
     
  6. RandyWilson

    RandyWilson United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    The printer with the scanner isn't set up from the move yet. It isn't even in the house. So it's not happening tonight. I tain't up to humping that thing in; it's an old office "document center, weighs a ton.

    In reading the the manuals, I have found that there are differences between the two units. It boils down to software revision 32026 (manual says 32024) and the new one at 32029. So far I have identified the newer one having two sets of default parameters, one for a 4000hz base and the other for a 50hz base. The older version was 400hz only, requiring a lot of leaning on the button to change most parameters.

    in lieu of a scan, here's what I have the first one running the lathe set to


    PH01 Default display 1725
    PH02 Initial startup frequency 60
    PH03 Source of runtime freq 2 (panel)
    PH04 Source of runtime command 1 (panel)
    PH05 Rotation Direction 3 both
    PH06 Stop method 2 braking
    PH07 Start by external signal 1 disable
    PH08 Accel time 5 seconds
    PH09 Decel time 6 seconds
    PH10 Max runtime freq 90hz
    PH11 Min runtime freq 20hz
    PH12 Motor rating freq 60hz

    -- everything below here is left at default --

    PH13 Torque compensation 0.0
    PH14 Torque compensation freq 400hz
    PH15 Startup DC braking V 30V
    PH16 Startup DC braking time 0 seconds
    PH17 Stop DC braking V 30V
    PH18 Stop DC braking time 0 seconds
    PH19 Source of multi-segment speed 1
    PH20 Multi-segment speed 1 freq 10
    PH21 Multi-segment speed 2 freq 20
    PH22 Multi-segment speed 3 freq 30
    PH23 Multi-segment speed 4 freq 40
    PH24 Multi-segment speed 5 freq 50
    PH25 Multi-segment speed 6 freq 60
    PH26 Multi-segment speed 7 freq 70
    PH27 Point move frequency 10
    PH28 Choice of relay input 3
    PH29 Second accel time 2 sec
    PH30 Second decel time 2 sec
    PH31 Second decel stop freq 1hz
    PH32 Parameter management 1 unlocked (3 reset to 400, 6 reset to 50)
    PH33 Software version
    PH34 Auto recover on power loss 0 disable
    PH35 Production date

    I had trouble with the first VFD installation, until I realized that the defaults were for some high speed application, and they all needed changing. I moved all of the frequencies to 60. Lo, the lathe ran fine at that. I then proceeded to move the freq limits outward, and applied a bit of braking. For the mill, I am going to first set PH32 to 6, choosing the 50hz runtime defaults, and see if it will run with only that one change. Then I will tweak towards a 60hz base.

    I spent some time today (call ME in to work on a Saturday, will you?) trying to find a manual close to these somewhere on the web. I even looked in other languages. I found nothing. Yet this VFD's is selling well on eBay. Thus I figured we needed a thread introducing them, and providing a warning that not all HY's are the same as the information gleaned a decade ago. This seemed to be as good a thread as any.
     
  7. RandyWilson

    RandyWilson United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Well, that was anticlimatic. I temporarily mounted the VFD on the wall, wired it up, and set PH32 to 6. It came up with a starting frequency of 12.98hz. I figured that would never work, but punched the start button anyway. The mill just started turning, very quietly. No fuss, no strain, no noise. I was amazed. Even better, it was turning backwards. I have found over the years that if I wire three phase and it turns the correct direction first time, there is _something wrong_. One change of wires and we're up and running.

    And it's so quiet. That RPC, between the motor whine and contactor buzz, could be heard in the next block. Loud enough the wife enforced a tnight curfew so I wouldn't keep the neighbors school kids up. Now I can hear the timing belt whir (need to adjust that), but little else. And the mill will actually stop when shut off rather than coasting for a minute.

    MY current settings are:

    PH01 Default display 60 (so it displays hz rather than rpm)
    PH02 Initial startup frequency 60
    PH03 Source of runtime freq 2 (panel)
    PH04 Source of runtime command 1 (panel)
    PH05 Rotation Direction 3 both
    PH06 Stop method 2 braking
    PH07 Start by external signal 1 disable
    PH08 Accel time 8 seconds
    PH09 Decel time 6 seconds
    PH10 Max runtime freq 90hz
    PH11 Min runtime freq 10hz
    PH12 Motor rating freq 60hz

    And the rest at default until I learn more about them.


    For all the bad press these things get, from noisy motors to impossible manuals and cryptic settings, I as an absolute noob have had no such problems. Indeed, most of the initial confusion was caused by getting the wrong information off of the web. This manual says it's only for the 0.75, 1.5, and 2.2kW units. These are definitely a new version of the units, not matching the web info at all. I can only speak directly for the 2.2kW units. I like. And I will like even better when I get the remote panel installed.

    And it just dawned on me why it started at 13hz initially. The default setting is for speed control via an external pot. No pot, so random garbage from the open terminals.
     
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  8. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious Active Member

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    Very Nicely Done Randy!!!
    Congratulations!!! :grin:
    Have lotsa fun now that you got er' runnin!
     
  9. Bob Korves

    Bob Korves H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    The control keypads on those VFDs are not known to be robust. It is a good idea to add external controls to every function you will be using regularly. Then program it how you like and never use the keypad again except to change parameters or for troubleshooting.
     
  10. Joe in Oz

    Joe in Oz Australia Active User Active Member

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    Hi Randy,
    when you get a chance to copy the manual, please post it here. There are others who will need help down the track.
     
  11. RandyWilson

    RandyWilson United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    New flash! I found the manual online. Or one that is really close. All you have to do is replace all of the references to AskPower A131 with Huanyang HY02D223B. Apparently these things are rebadged Askpowers.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. RandyWilson

    RandyWilson United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    And the later HY version
     

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  13. RandyWilson

    RandyWilson United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    The more I learn about these units, the more I am suspecting the "HY Series" is a marketing ploy and Huanyang actually has little or nothing to do with them. They are made by Isacon Power Control Co. No matter, so far they have been working quite well in my applications.

    So far.

    I'm about to subject one to more stress. higher duty cycle, and starting a motor under load. I had an old small 60 gallon compressor with a 5hp two stage head land in my barn one night. How it got there shall remain a mystery, at least as far as the wife is concerned. I ordered a larger VFD, and behold, it is the same style as the previous ones. just much bigger. So now I get to tune to starting under load, and have to figure out a control scheme that is compatible with a pressure switch. Unless some better idea comes up, I'm planning on using the "jog" button remote input as the control.

    The fun begins again. And yes, I can put a pressure release solenoid on the compressor head if it comes to it. But where's the fun in that?
     
  14. mksj

    mksj Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    My understanding is that there are cheaper copies of the HY, as some of the eCrap HY listings mention this. These are knock offs look alike of the HY, sounds like a clone of a clone. On a compressor, just connect the pressure switch to the VFD run input in the direction you want. This way you get the acceleration/deceleration and all the other run parameters are in affect. You can also program an input for a fixed frequency, in some cases one might use two different fixed speeds where a slower speed might be used to reduce the noise. Compressors have a minimum/maximum speed ratings, but the same pump is often used for different motors sizes/pump speeds. There are a few other people that have used these VFDs for 3 phase compressors with no issues, no reason to expect otherwise. I often recommend up sizing these to the next higher kW rated unit in this application, the price difference is nominal. These are all made to a price point, so in some applications there would be better choices and more post sale support if needed.

    Use 2 wire control for the inputs controls which requires sustained closed to operate, not 3 wire which use momentary controls. With 2 wire control: Closed is RUN, Open is STOP.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
  15. RandyWilson

    RandyWilson United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    The problem I see with using the "run" input is it is a momentary button. Push and release once to start, push and release again to stop. I need an input control that is on when closed, off when open. I hadn't thought about the start and stop curves not applying to the jog function. Geeez.
     
  16. RandyWilson

    RandyWilson United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    And it is another non-event. While the booklet implies the remote inputs act like the panel buttons, picturing momentary switches, they don't. They're non-latching. Jumper the run, the compressor starts. Remove the jumper, it stops. It's as simple as that.

    I was all geared up for beating this problem. Looking forward to it, actually. How can I exercise my inner creative genius when these things are so cooperative?


    I can't find a way, so could I get a mod to edit the subject? Change the "HY" to "HY series", or even "Isacon HY series"? Thanks
     
  17. RandyM

    RandyM United States Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    All fixed.
     
  18. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    I wonder if the multi-segment frequency is what they call the carrier frequency? Kinda makes sense in a chinese translation kind of way.
    Mark S.
     
  19. KMoffett

    KMoffett United States Active User Active Member

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    Attached is my wiring for a Huanyang VFD remote. RLY3 make the momentary push buttons SW4 and SW3 latching.

    Ken

    View attachment 236572 VFDExternalsStartStop10.gif
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
  20. RandyWilson

    RandyWilson United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Mark, now that I am more comfortable with the unit, I have a theory on the multi-segment thing. I'm thinking that when multi-segment is enabled, Pn03=7, the three external inputs normally used as forward and reverse jog become treated as a single 3 bit binary input. This results in a number from 0-7, with 0 being controlled in a normal fashion (Pn19), and 1-7 being programmable fixed speeds (Pn20-26).
     
  21. mksj

    mksj Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Per above, this is multi-speed set by the binary 3 bit matrix. Setting the PIN 20-26 sets the speeds 1-7. These are activated by inputs D0, D1 and D3, so by switching any of the combinations of these three inputs it sets the speed control for the VFD. PN03 would need to be set to 07. So this acts as the frequency source, not a run command. It is unclear as to the setting of Pn19 "source of multi-segmented speed". This is a lot more basic VFD than the usual Huanyang VFD, so I am not sure I would put it in the same category or compare it to an HY. The manuals in these are really terrible, and I have had issues with them being buggy in some scenarios. There seems no way to set any of the motor parameters and it does not seem to run sensorless vector which will greatly enhance the motor performance. There is no way to run 3 wire control which is most frequently used with momentary buttons like on mills. If it works, fine, but do not expect a lot of functionality from them.
    Multibit Speed..jpg
     
  22. RandyWilson

    RandyWilson United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    So many many posts on the internet trashing components, usually Chinese, written by people with no experience with the exact item. The posts are based on heresay, often decades old, about some different but maybe slightly similar product. The other side of the coin is best called "ignorance is bliss". Thinking that what they have is fantastic because they don't know what could be, should be.

    So. What am I missing. What should I be looking for. I punch the start button, the lathe/mill/compressor starts. Hit the stop and it stops. Reverse, jog, it does what I ask. No smoke, no noise, no undue heat. The guy I bought the lathe from used a static converter for demo. Same for the semi-commercial source of my mill. The table motor on the mill was actually too hot to touch after less than a minute on the static converter; I and the seller figured on replacing it in the sale price. Yet on the VFD, it stays cool even on long runs. Compared to the statics, and the NOISY RPC I have, these VFDs are heaven.

    I'm new to this type of electric motor stuff. I have automotive grade test equipment, DVOM, scope, and vibration analyzing equipment. I've designed, etched and assembled my own computer boards. But my three phase is limited to wiring in shop equipment. What sort of tests can I run that will show the weakness of these VFDs?
     

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