Tramming the nod

Oh, one other thing... If you're adjusting nod by shimming the column (which is how I do it) use a torque wrench and the same bolt sequence when you tighten the bolts.
Thank you, That is interesting(both posts) I am using a collet for the dual dial indicators, but ran the DTI with the Noga, and the drill chuck. Note to self, follow the same procedures....:oops::rolleyes:
My Noga is a collett mount, is the collar mount better?
 
A collet should be fine assuming you have no reason to believe it's been spun-out or otherwise inaccurate. Also, make sure the stem of your holder naturally fits the diameter of the chosen collet. I use collets on the lathe a lot and when the piece is on the small side of the collet's range, it can throw things off by many thou if you don't seat it properly.

I don't necessarily think a collar mount is better. I can see pros/cons to each way of doing it so, I'll back-pedal on my strongly worded advisement of doing it that way. What I was really trying to convey is you should not use a drill chuck. Most drill chuck jaws are off a good amount and/or are not repeatable. FWIW, the possible down-side of an external holder is that the bore of the spindle is not perfectly centered with the outside diameter. That really should not be the case but, you never know until you test and find-out.

What I'm talking about is splitting hairs and may draw criticism. I've learned the hard way... you have to see all possible factors at play then, learn and know your equipment so you can refine your techniques.

Indeed, use a trusted and properly sized collet or, an external spindle mount and tram your heart out.

Regards

Ray C.
 
It shouldn't matter how your holder is mounted as long as it is solid. The indicator, or indicators, will still spin on the spindle axis and thus also be perpendicular to the spindle axis. Much the same as it does not matter what angle a flycutter tool is at the tip still spins perpendicular to the axis of the spindle.
 
It shouldn't matter how your holder is mounted as long as it is solid. The indicator, or indicators, will still spin on the spindle axis and thus also be perpendicular to the spindle axis. Much the same as it does not matter what angle a flycutter tool is at the tip still spins perpendicular to the axis of the spindle.
Thank you, Bill. Exactly what I have been trying to put into words that someone besides me can decipher it. If a drill chuck has even as much as .010" TIR, as long as it doesn't move up and down, what difference does it make if you're sweeping a 10.000" circle or a 10.010" circle with your tramming setup?

Tom
 
Thank you gentelmen your assistance is greatly appreciated.
 
It shouldn't matter how your holder is mounted as long as it is solid. The indicator, or indicators, will still spin on the spindle axis and thus also be perpendicular to the spindle axis. Much the same as it does not matter what angle a flycutter tool is at the tip still spins perpendicular to the axis of the spindle.

Bill is absolutely right here. As long as the indicator is firmly affixed to any part of the spindle or chuck or collet etc, it should be good to go. My thinking was off track due to a problem with a drill press I bought some time ago. I happened to notice that drill bits did not appear to be spinning true and in fact, it was wobbling a good amount. ...Took the chuck out, replaced it with a a different MT/JT mounted chuck... Same problem. Finally, I looked inside the spindle bore and there was a piece of the foam peanut packaging preventing the MT shaft from seating all the way. From that point on, my brain was in the mode of thinking the rotation was off. Rotation was fine. Alignment wasn't.

Thanks to Bill for setting it straight in my head.

Regards

Ray C.
 
OK let's see if I did this right. For the nod I used both a 0.001 dial indicator, and a 0.0005 DTI. I set the depth of the .001 DI, and zeroed on the outside edge, and swept it to the inside edge. There is a 0.003 runout. with the 0.0005 DTI same procedure it was 0.0025. Would this be accurate, and worth fixing?
 
OK let's see if I did this right. For the nod I used both a 0.001 dial indicator, and a 0.0005 DTI. I set the depth of the .001 DI, and zeroed on the outside edge, and swept it to the inside edge. There is a 0.003 runout. with the 0.0005 DTI same procedure it was 0.0025. Would this be accurate, and worth fixing?

Technically speaking, in my view of things, that's too far out; but.... for now, you might want to consider other things. I'm going to assume you do most of your work using a vise. Mount your vice and get a 6" long, 1/2" thick parallel known to be in good condition. Stand it up vertically in the vise. Use a piece of copper wire or tig rod etc between the parallel and front jaw and snug the vise so the parallel is kept flat against the rear jaw of the vise. (Let us know if this is not making sense). Now, use your indicator and check the up/down (Z) travel runout by cranking the head up/down (don't use the spindle crank). Check an up/down distance of about 3-4 inches.

Ideally, the table should be flat and your vise's rear jaw should be perpendicular to the table. If your vise is out a little and so is your table, you need to check error stack-up. It could be that, for most of the working distances you operate at, the errors collectively cancel out, or, they combine and make things much worse off.

Once again, it's best if everything can be perfect (both table and vise) but, we don't always have what we want. I'm also mentioning this so you understand all the different factors at play.

FWIW, I try to get my table within +/- 0.0005" over an 8" circle. When I do the vertical test, it's also within +/- 0.0005". Last but not least, my PM45 has only needed adjustment twice in the 7-8 years I've had it. The first time was when I made an adjustment using a piece of junk vise. The second adjustment was made when I purchased a half-decent vise. Other than that, once nod is properly adjusted, it's pretty hard to knock it out of whack.

Regards

Ray C.
 
The table should be Trammed without the Vice first. Get it as close to ZERO as possible. Then mount the vice the Vice and check that. If the vice is off then the vice needs to be repaired or replaced. Moving the quill up and down is not the proper way to Tram a machine!
 
I agree with Billh50. Tram the spindle to the table. Once you've got that where you want it you can then check the spindle to the column using the Rollie's Dad's Method described in the Hoss Machine video link I posted above. If your readings show the spindle isn't true to the column you can machine or scrape the head to column interface or live with it. Now you can check your vise to spindle. If the vise jaws are out then fix or replace the vise.
 
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