Time for a modern TIG machine. What do you like?

[G-ManBart]

Thanks for the discussion and input. I think my choices are down to three: HTP Invertig 301, Miller Syncrowave 250 DX (if fully optioned), and the Dynasty 210. All three can overlap in price but there are a lot of factors in arriving at a deal. The HTP represents the best value, and they deliver to my door. The other options will come down to opportunity and diligence, as always is the case with machinery.

I own a Syncrowave 250DX and have had literally 20 or 21 other Syncrowave 250 and 250DX welders in the past few years. I made it a hobby of buying them, cleaning them up, replacing anything needed and making them as nice as possible...some literally looked like floor demo models when I was ready to sell them. With that said, the optional pulser and sequencer aren't in the same boat as far as capability goes compared to a newer inverter machine. Don't get me wrong, I love mine, but if you really want a useful pulse, variable frequency, different wave forms, etc, you might look at something newer. On top of that, prices have skyrocketed on them in the past 2-3 years. I used to be able to buy a really nice unit with the integral water cooler for under $2K, go through it top to bottom and sell it for $3,000 to $3500 pretty regularly...folks could come run it all they wanted to make sure it was solid. Now you'll pay more than that to get an untested unit at auction.

I also own an Everlast PowerTIG 210EXT and while it welds nicely, I would never, ever buy from them again, or recommend that company. My first Everlast developed a problem after just a few months and it took over 50 e-mails and a dozen phone calls to get resolved. First they sent me the wrong part, then the right part, then the wrong board, then the right board, and nothing worked. Finally I wound up on the phone with Oleg, the owner, and he offered a replacement unit or full purchase price credit towards a more expensive machine. I went with the more expensive machine, but really would have preferred a full purchase price refund. They are legendary for being terrible about customer service.

Others have mentioned the Primeweld 225X and that's one I've recommended to several friends lately. Everyone I know who's bought one has been really happy with it, and the company gets universally good reviews. I'm planning to buy one of their Plasma cutters soon. Other than having less power than a Sync 250 it gives you all of the modern bells and whistles the Sync lacks. The machines are imported, but the company is here and you can get a live person on the phone very easily.

If you do go with a modern inverter, and decide to add a water cooler, I do have one suggestion after having gone through a lot of coolers in the past couple of years. Avoid the inexpensive coolers you'll find on Amazon, eBay and even the HTP unit (the only HTP product I don't like). These use a pump for moving coolant and a set of electric fans similar to what you'd find on a computer tower to move air. There are various posts about the pump failing or having a blocked line but you don't know it because the fans keep running. I have also tested three of these coolers and they put out a very low volume of water...like barely enough to send water two or three feet horizontally. The better coolers from Miller, Bernard, Dynaflux, etc use a bigger motor that has a cooling fan on one end and a Procon style pump on the other end. They cost more, but are very reliable and if the motor stops you'll know about it. They also put out way more water...they'll send water 15+ feet easily. They cost more, but I'm sold on how much better they work, and how easy they are to service and repair.

 

[Toro5xi]

Ok I realize Miller and Lincoln have huge budgets for advertising and other overhead costs that say HTP don’t have but I looked at the Primeweld prices and I am shocked. How is that possible? What am I missing?
I have wanted a larger Plasma cutter but just couldn’t justify the price for how infrequently I would use it. Has anyone used the Primeweld plasma cutters? For those prices I would get one.

 

[C-Bag]

I own a Syncrowave 250DX and have had literally 20 or 21 other Syncrowave 250 and 250DX welders in the past few years. I made it a hobby of buying them, cleaning them up, replacing anything needed and making them as nice as possible...some literally looked like floor demo models when I was ready to sell them. With that said, the optional pulser and sequencer aren't in the same boat as far as capability goes compared to a newer inverter machine. Don't get me wrong, I love mine, but if you really want a useful pulse, variable frequency, different wave forms, etc, you might look at something newer. On top of that, prices have skyrocketed on them in the past 2-3 years. I used to be able to buy a really nice unit with the integral water cooler for under $2K, go through it top to bottom and sell it for $3,000 to $3500 pretty regularly...folks could come run it all they wanted to make sure it was solid. Now you'll pay more than that to get an untested unit at auction.

I also own an Everlast PowerTIG 210EXT and while it welds nicely, I would never, ever buy from them again, or recommend that company. My first Everlast developed a problem after just a few months and it took over 50 e-mails and a dozen phone calls to get resolved. First they sent me the wrong part, then the right part, then the wrong board, then the right board, and nothing worked. Finally I wound up on the phone with Oleg, the owner, and he offered a replacement unit or full purchase price credit towards a more expensive machine. I went with the more expensive machine, but really would have preferred a full purchase price refund. They are legendary for being terrible about customer service.

Others have mentioned the Primeweld 225X and that's one I've recommended to several friends lately. Everyone I know who's bought one has been really happy with it, and the company gets universally good reviews. I'm planning to buy one of their Plasma cutters soon. Other than having less power than a Sync 250 it gives you all of the modern bells and whistles the Sync lacks. The machines are imported, but the company is here and you can get a live person on the phone very easily.

If you do go with a modern inverter, and decide to add a water cooler, I do have one suggestion after having gone through a lot of coolers in the past couple of years. Avoid the inexpensive coolers you'll find on Amazon, eBay and even the HTP unit (the only HTP product I don't like). These use a pump for moving coolant and a set of electric fans similar to what you'd find on a computer tower to move air. There are various posts about the pump failing or having a blocked line but you don't know it because the fans keep running. I have also tested three of these coolers and they put out a very low volume of water...like barely enough to send water two or three feet horizontally. The better coolers from Miller, Bernard, Dynaflux, etc use a bigger motor that has a cooling fan on one end and a Procon style pump on the other end. They cost more, but are very reliable and if the motor stops you'll know about it. They also put out way more water...they'll send water 15+ feet easily. They cost more, but I'm sold on how much better they work, and how easy they are to service and repair.

That makes me feel better about not taking my brothers machine. Thing was huge. But I want to do thin aluminum so don’t think I need a ship welder. What I think it confusing is when you search “best tig machine” it’s always the Everlast and HTP, never once have I seen the Primeweld. But YouTube pros etc have loved the 225. Go figgur.

 

[DavidR8]

Ok I realize Miller and Lincoln have huge budgets for advertising and other overhead costs that say HTP don’t have but I looked at the Primeweld prices and I am shocked. How is that possible? What am I missing?
I have wanted a larger Plasma cutter but just couldn’t justify the price for how infrequently I would use it. Has anyone used the Primeweld plasma cutters? For those prices I would get one.

By all the reports I've seen the Primeweld plasma cutters are also excellent.

 

[Aaron_W]

As with anything, software or hardware, it has a lot to do with what you learned on. Besides the glowing reviews on YouTube of the Primeweld 225 and them getting 100% on customer service including paying for shipping, the complete controls with individual knobs is a big deal for me. Most younger people don’t mind small digital interfaces that you scroll through menus. I am NOT wired that way and hate them with a passion. So the 225 having all the controls over parameters that some cheaper machines don’t even have right on the face with well marked knobs totally appeals to me. Also there are several of the lower end HF, and Everlast machines for sale used. I have a tendency to wonder why. Unless it’s one of the machines I’m interested in then all logic and caution is forgotten

This is exactly what I was getting at.

ESAB and Lincoln both used a push the knob and scroll input, while Miller uses a simpler push button and up and down arrows that I'm more comfortable with. I really wanted a 3 in 1 machine for space reasons so didn't spend much time looking at any stand alone TIG welders, but the Prime Weld did stand out to me with its plethora of knobs. It reminded me of the flight engineers station on a B36 (controls and gauges for 6 piston engines and 4 jet engines). To some I'm sure that is a feature. In a car I prefer a manual transmission, but in a welder I appreciate a good auto set feature.

 

[DavidR8]

This is exactly what I was getting at.

ESAB and Lincoln both used a push the knob and scroll input, while Miller uses a simpler push button and up and down arrows that I'm more comfortable with. I really wanted a 3 in 1 machine for space reasons so didn't spend much time looking at any stand alone TIG welders, but the Prime Weld did stand out to me with its plethora of knobs. It reminded me of the flight engineers station on a B36 (controls and gauges for 6 piston engines and 4 jet engines). To some I'm sure that is a feature. In a car I prefer a manual transmission, but in a welder I appreciate a good auto set feature.

I know there's a fellow that has made a decal for the switch panel which has increment lines so that you have some point of reference when making adjustments.

 

[Toro5xi]

This had been a great thread. I’m a sucker for the tool truck. Always purchased Lincoln or miller, and have a Hypertherm 30 plasma cutter but I’m gonna try a Primeweld plasma cutter. I thought I was taking a chance going with HTP 8 years ago but have never had a problem and certainly grounded the tungsten more than I care to admit.

 

[G-ManBart]

Ok I realize Miller and Lincoln have huge budgets for advertising and other overhead costs that say HTP don’t have but I looked at the Primeweld prices and I am shocked. How is that possible? What am I missing?
I have wanted a larger Plasma cutter but just couldn’t justify the price for how infrequently I would use it. Has anyone used the Primeweld plasma cutters? For those prices I would get one.

The big difference is that the Primeweld machines are made in China, where the others are U.S. (Miller), Mexico (Lincoln) and Italy (HTP) for the most part. One thing that often gets missed is that the bigger companies have service centers, trained techs, tech services, and also warehouses with smart parts going back decades in many cases. That isn't going to be the case with a company like Primeweld. The reality is, if a Primweld breaks in five years you're just going to buy a replacement rather than be able to fix it. With the bigger names you have a better chance of being able to get parts and support over time, and that can't be cheap for the companies to maintain.

I've done a lot of reading about plasma cutters over the past year, and read every review and post I could find about the Primeweld machines. Much like the TIG, I have yet to see anything bad written about them. I'm planning to get the CUT60 as it will handle anything I'm likely to run into regularly...still have a big oxy/acetylene setup for anything really thick.

 

[Abrasive]

I looked hard at all the "affordable" AC/DC tig machines. Basically anything less expensive than a Dynasty.

Some notes on what led me to the HTP:

One thing I knew I wanted was good low end amperage control. Any of these boxes will weld great at the high end. Having the current spike and blow a hole in a tiny part or thin material when you arc up will really ruin your day.

The HTP will weld down to 4A, and it fires very nicely even at this tiny current level. The Everlast boxes will weld down at this range but there are some anecdotal reports that it light off higher and then settles down to this level. I haven't welded with one. The Primeweld's minimum is 20A, and again I don't know how hard it actually lights off. The AHP claims 5A DC/ 20A AC.

This may not be an important spec to you. It's fun to mess around welding razor blades, shim stock and beer cans, but most people won't be doing this day-to-day. You can also light up on a piece of scrap material and move the arc over to your workpiece.

With regard to all the knobs on the Primeweld, Everlast, etc., my take on it is that encoders tend to outlast potentiometers. All those pots on the front panels look like the ultimate in convenience, until one craps out on you. I'm reasonably certain that at this price point, they're not using high-end components here. And if one does start to get flaky, there's no good way to know. If that function isn't linked to a displayed number, it's hard to chase down that sort of issue. It's also much harder to have precise repeatability of settings. This is really more important in an industrial setting. Some industries and applications require extremely close tracking to a WPS. Anyway, there's a reason Miller, Lincoln, ESAB, Fronius, etc. don't have a wall of knobs on the front of their machines, and it isn't cost-cutting.

There's a YT video where a guy did a tear-down of the HTP Invertig, and the build quality is very, very good. It's built in Italy, not China, if that's important to you.

I'm not trying to bash any welder out there. Just throwing out some of the things that I considered when choosing my tig rig.

All that said, the Primeweld is an exceptional value, especially considering that it comes with a flex head CK torch.

 

[Abrasive]

If you do go with a modern inverter, and decide to add a water cooler, I do have one suggestion after having gone through a lot of coolers in the past couple of years. Avoid the inexpensive coolers you'll find on Amazon, eBay and even the HTP unit (the only HTP product I don't like). These use a pump for moving coolant and a set of electric fans similar to what you'd find on a computer tower to move air. There are various posts about the pump failing or having a blocked line but you don't know it because the fans keep running. I have also tested three of these coolers and they put out a very low volume of water...like barely enough to send water two or three feet horizontally. The better coolers from Miller, Bernard, Dynaflux, etc use a bigger motor that has a cooling fan on one end and a Procon style pump on the other end. They cost more, but are very reliable and if the motor stops you'll know about it. They also put out way more water...they'll send water 15+ feet easily. They cost more, but I'm sold on how much better they work, and how easy they are to service and repair.

The HTP cooler is made in China, but it's not constructed like the cheaper coolers that are out there. The fan and the pump are on the same motor shaft. There's also a flow sensor with an audible and visible alarm.