Tailstock scratching ways

[mikey]

Tech mentioned to look for a chip, but this was the first thing I did. There was no chip and I said this. Tech responded saying, it’s fine to leave it, otherwise you will stop the tailstock from being able to get oil underneath.

Wait ... what? They're saying the bottom of the tailstock is supposed to be domed so as to allow oil to get underneath? First I've heard of this technical innovation. The bottom of my Emco tailstock is ground dead flat (well, it also has a V) and it rides on a layer of way oil over hardened and ground ways, which is how things should be. Sounds to me like that PM tech is trying to defend a defect that should not be there. If someone told me that, I would call Matt and let him know that this is what his techs are telling folks.

If this was my lathe, I would have PM replace the tailstock with an inspected one that is at least properly machined. I would avoid using the tailstock until this is resolved. Yes, it is a low-level hobby machine but that doesn't excuse PM from providing an acceptable level of work.

 

[Dabbler]

@FTlatheworks sorry for being late to the party...

The 'look' of the tailstock can be deceiving, but there is a very easy test. I ordered a cheap 1" X 4" X.250" 4000/8000 combo stone as a tester for things like this. It is light enough you can feel quite small burrs and even feel the surface finish. Gently use that on your ways and your mating tailstock surfaces, If you feel any burrs remove them. This will help a lot. Valleys never hurt you on a machine tool, just the peaks. Remember to very thoroughly clean the surfaces after using the stone.

Now about the tailstock being .002 high (or thereabouts). I have a 40 year old LeBlond Regal Toolroom lathe - it was delivered .003 high (and it still is). This is quite common on lathes I've measured. I've been checking stuff like this for 40 years on a lot of lathes. In fact I have only seen one lathe with the tailstock dead on - a Colchester Master 2500 toolroom lathe. The average lathe I measure, is +/- .002 to .004 on vertical and worse on the horizontal. And not one of them (except the colchester) coaxial with the spindle.

- I've made my LeBlond tailstock run coaxially with the headstock, but refuse to alter the height. If I need that degree of accuracy, I use a boring head with a dead center, indicated in to a half tenth. For most operations it really doesn't matter if it is a few thou high.

 

[Richard King 2]

I made a comment on this forum a while ago, not realizing it was a "sponsored forum". I wish I had looked better before writing the last one criticizing the PM machines. I will comment on the rebuilding forum if you don't mind. Thanks for understanding. Rich

 

[Larry$]

This thread got me wondering about my PM1440HD. Today I took the tailstock off, cleaned and inspected. There are no scratches in the bed. By now if there had been any burs they would have worn off, 5 years old. The bottom of the tailstock has surface grinding marks and rather crude scraping marks. Obviously the scraping wasn't done to true the surface, maybe to hold oil. The tailstock slides nicely of a film of oil. My only complaint is the bolt that retains the clamping plate keeps working loose. I just reach trough the bed holes and finger tighten it 1/2 a turn when needed. Some day I'll figure out a fix.

 

[FTlatheworks]

Wait ... what? They're saying the bottom of the tailstock is supposed to be domed so as to allow oil to get underneath? First I've heard of this technical innovation. The bottom of my Emco tailstock is ground dead flat (well, it also has a V) and it rides on a layer of way oil over hardened and ground ways, which is how things should be. Sounds to me like that PM tech is trying to defend a defect that should not be there. If someone told me that, I would call Matt and let him know that this is what his techs are telling folks.

If this was my lathe, I would have PM replace the tailstock with an inspected one that is at least properly machined. I would avoid using the tailstock until this is resolved. Yes, it is a low-level hobby machine but that doesn't excuse PM from providing an acceptable level of work.

That’s how I have felt about things, but I keep being told I’m being too critical. Yes they are cheaper machines, but just because it’s cheaper doesn’t mean it should be wrong. At this point I have only flat out asked for one thing to be replaced and that was a leaking gasket. I have complained about a lot, but I realized they are minor things that all import lathes have to some degree.
Paint, gears rubbing loudly at certain rpms, and now the tailstock are all the things I have complained about. At first I was most concerned about the gears. They said you just have to find the right spot where they don’t make noise. I have worked my way around that and talked to other gear head lathe owners and found that’s just the nature of the beast. This tailstock thing i don’t know what to think. I mentioned earlier when buying a used lathe, I was told, look for damage to the way and the finish of all component attaching to the ways. When I got the lathe I figure I will use it, but it is clearly wearing on the ways, now I’m here seeking wisdom.

 

[FTlatheworks]

I made a comment on this forum a while ago, not realizing it was a "sponsored forum". I wish I had looked better before writing the last one criticizing the PM machines. I will comment on the rebuilding forum if you don't mind. Thanks for understanding. Rich

Should I not have posted here? Honestly, I’m still figuring out this forum. I waited months before posting on forums because I know how many people can read one negative post and decide against a brand.

 

[matthewsx]

Should I not have posted here? Honestly, I’m still figuring out this forum. I waited months before posting on forums because I know how many people can read one negative post and decide against a brand.

Richard King is a very experienced and very well respected machine re-builder on this forum, he's particularly aware of sponsored forum sections since he hosts one here himself. If you want your machine to be perfect he's one of the best to to look to.

As far as your post I think it's exactly the reason Precision Matthews also hosts a forum here. There's an old saying in business "a complaint is a complement" that simply means having a customer tell you what they're not happy about is one of the best ways of getting better at what you do. If customers don't speak up, but instead just go spend their money somewhere else then you've not only lost the customer, you've lost the opportunity to improve your products and service.

I really can't say anything about your particular issue that hasn't already been said so instead I'll relate an experience from my previous business. I had a customer bring his snowblower in for a tune up and we did our standard service, including running it into a snow bank and confirming that everything worked right.

He brought it back again and again complaining that it didn't run smoothly enough and I tried my best to get it to where he wanted it including modifying his carburetor (I was a racing go kart engine builder so I knew a little about small engines). He kept bringing it back and I came to understand that he was a retired automotive engineer and that gave him a unique perspective on all things mechanical.

Now this particular engine was a Tecumseh L-head design from the early part of the 20th century, it did it's job well but was never designed to run smoothly. I was also a Honda snowblower dealer so I had the ability to sell him one that would definitely run smoother but that's not what he wanted.

Eventually when he brought it in again I started it up and ran it into a big bank of snow and demonstrated how good it was running by throwing snow a good 40ft. I explained that his machine was designed to move snow and since it was doing that well I had in fact done everything that was needed and if he wanted something else I would be glad to sell him a new Honda so he could have a smooth idling engine.

My previous business building race engines I bought from a legendary kart engine builder who occasionally had customers complain that their engines didn't idle well. What Mike said was "it ain't an idling contest" Any mechanical device is designed to do a particular job at a particular level of accuracy and a particular price point.

So, I'd posit that if your lathe cuts stainless steel and can make parts as accurate as you are able to, then it's performing as designed. It sounds like the scratch came some time after first setting it up but it's well documented here and elsewhere that Chinese built tools should be considered "kits" where you get to set-up and improve to your requirements. Others have given plenty of suggestions for how to do just that and it sounds like Precision Matthews is willing to do whatever it takes to keep you coming back.

Your thread will serve to help others decide what level $$$ of machine they desire so it's probably a win for all involved.

Cheers,

John

 

[FTlatheworks]

Richard King is a very experienced and very well respected machine re-builder on this forum, he's particularly aware of sponsored forum sections since he hosts one here himself. If you want your machine to be perfect he's one of the best to to look to.

As far as your post I think it's exactly the reason Precision Matthews also hosts a forum here. There's an old saying in business "a complaint is a complement" that simply means having a customer tell you what they're not happy about is one of the best ways of getting better at what you do. If customers don't speak up, but instead just go spend their money somewhere else then you've not only lost the customer, you've lost the opportunity to improve your products and service.

I really can't say anything about your particular issue that hasn't already been said so instead I'll relate an experience from my previous business. I had a customer bring his snowblower in for a tune up and we did our standard service, including running it into a snow bank and confirming that everything worked right.

He brought it back again and again complaining that it didn't run smoothly enough and I tried my best to get it to where he wanted it including modifying his carburetor (I was a racing go kart engine builder so I knew a little about small engines). He kept bringing it back and I came to understand that he was a retired automotive engineer and that gave him a unique perspective on all things mechanical.

Now this particular engine was a Tecumseh L-head design from the early part of the 20th century, it did it's job well but was never designed to run smoothly. I was also a Honda snowblower dealer so I had the ability to sell him one that would definitely run smoother but that's not what he wanted.

Eventually when he brought it in again I started it up and ran it into a big bank of snow and demonstrated how good it was running by throwing snow a good 40ft. I explained that his machine was designed to move snow and since it was doing that well I had in fact done everything that was needed and if he wanted something else I would be glad to sell him a new Honda so he could have a smooth idling engine.

My previous business building race engines I bought from a legendary kart engine builder who occasionally had customers complain that their engines didn't idle well. What Mike said was "it ain't an idling contest" Any mechanical device is designed to do a particular job at a particular level of accuracy and a particular price point.

So, I'd posit that if your lathe cuts stainless steel and can make parts as accurate as you are able to, then it's performing as designed. It sounds like the scratch came some time after first setting it up but it's well documented here and elsewhere that Chinese built tools should be considered "kits" where you get to set-up and improve to your requirements. Others have given plenty of suggestions for how to do just that and it sounds like Precision Matthews is willing to do whatever it takes to keep you coming back.

Your thread will serve to help others decide what level $$$ of machine they desire so it's probably a win for all involved.

Cheers,

That’s a good analogy. Thank you for taking the time to post this.
Well, your only problem was that it was a tecumseh... lol.

I’m just enjoying the discussion at this point. I enjoy the conversation, as much as completing the objective. It helps me hearing from everyone else, no matter how redundant.

On a side note, would you be interested in giving me some small engine advice? Send me a message if you have the time, or interest for that matter. I have a particularly interesting project I’m building, similar to a racing go-kart.

 

[Dabbler]

@FTlatheworks Did you take a stone to the surfaces to see if there were any burrs? Are you comfortable with the description or would you like more information?

-- it is entirely correct to discuss your troubles and how to resolve them here. PM is a sponsor here, but that does not make them immune to polite criticism. My feeling is that they seem to sell machines whose quality is as or better than expected for the price, and they try to support their customers well within reason - even going to heroic measures at times.

That being said, even a top of the line producer (car, lathe, or what have you) can produce a product with defects.

 

[FTlatheworks]

@FTlatheworks Did you take a stone to the surfaces to see if there were any burrs? Are you comfortable with the description or would you like more information?

-- it is entirely correct to discuss your troubles and how to resolve them here. PM is a sponsor here, but that does not make them immune to polite criticism. My feeling is that they seem to sell machines whose quality is as or better than expected for the price, and they try to support their customers well within reason - even going to heroic measures at times.

That being said, even a top of the line producer (car, lathe, or what have you) can produce a product with defects.

No I have not. I have been avoiding moving it in a way that will apply a lot of pressure to the ways. I need to find the proper size and quality hone. Any suggestions?