- Joined
- Jan 20, 2015
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- 359
I winced when I saw it to. I hope the employee that did that years ago was shown the door
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Stuck with 4 way toolpost. How to cope?
- Thread starter taiwanluthiers
- Start date
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2018
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- 5,637
Looks like it did time in a school, that was more than one incident.
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2017
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- 2,138
Up front, I will admit to using small tooling for my lathe. I mostly use 1/4 and 5/16 tools, a few 1/8 tools for delicate work. Much Most of my work is small, model building and making tools. I have a 9X19 Grizzly (G1550/G4000) and a 12X36 Craftsman/Atlas.(101.27440) I have a few larger tools that were picked up salvage. Some I have cut down, some are just used for tool steel stock. Larger tools are for large machines and are cumbersome at best for smaller machines. I will admit, over the years I have spent a great deal for tool holders. But starting out long ago, I faced a similar problem to what you are describing. And "jury rigged" around it until I had the necessary funds to do better. With that said:
For light milling, a lathe works moderately well. Blocking up a chunk of steel on the cross slide is often a bit of work, a milling attachment helps here. But getting it mounted and trued varys from machine to machine as well as personal tastes and falls into need or necessity and what is available. As is often said from many years ago, necessity is the mother of invention. And we, as a rule, are inventers of a sort. Mounting the milling cutter into the chuck is a given. Large milling cutters can easily be accomodated this way.
The cuts must be light, the passes many, but can be done. But that's one of the traits of a good machinist, patience. And lots of it. In the beginning, a simple adapter to raise or lower the tool is important. Given time and experience, tool holders can advance in complexity to adjustable dove tail devices rivaling those commercially available. And often are, just follow the threads here for examples.
As funding for "toys" advances, a simple adjustable slide holder is a good starting point. I can't think of the proper name, there are several designs. My advice would be to start with a cheaper set and replace with a good set as funding improves. It is common knowledge that costs of tooling far exceed the costs of the machine. The only difference is that machine costs are "right now" and tooling is more piecemeal, spread over time. Sources are many, as well as are new or used. Whether new or used depends on the tool, some are easily trued, some not so easy, and some best if new/unused. That's a personal issue, especially for a novice. As techniques improve over time, so do selections for tooling.
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CUSTOM TOOL HOLDERS WITHOUT A MILLING MACHINE.
For light milling, a lathe works moderately well. Blocking up a chunk of steel on the cross slide is often a bit of work, a milling attachment helps here. But getting it mounted and trued varys from machine to machine as well as personal tastes and falls into need or necessity and what is available. As is often said from many years ago, necessity is the mother of invention. And we, as a rule, are inventers of a sort. Mounting the milling cutter into the chuck is a given. Large milling cutters can easily be accomodated this way.
The cuts must be light, the passes many, but can be done. But that's one of the traits of a good machinist, patience. And lots of it. In the beginning, a simple adapter to raise or lower the tool is important. Given time and experience, tool holders can advance in complexity to adjustable dove tail devices rivaling those commercially available. And often are, just follow the threads here for examples.
As funding for "toys" advances, a simple adjustable slide holder is a good starting point. I can't think of the proper name, there are several designs. My advice would be to start with a cheaper set and replace with a good set as funding improves. It is common knowledge that costs of tooling far exceed the costs of the machine. The only difference is that machine costs are "right now" and tooling is more piecemeal, spread over time. Sources are many, as well as are new or used. Whether new or used depends on the tool, some are easily trued, some not so easy, and some best if new/unused. That's a personal issue, especially for a novice. As techniques improve over time, so do selections for tooling.
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- Joined
- Dec 2, 2012
- Messages
- 1,723
No, not really.... I've got a rocker tool post for most of what I do.
If you need something like that, it should be with the tool. That is, when you lay each tool in the (drawer, box, shelf, wherever it lives when you're not using it), the shims should be with it. Counted, sorted, just the right height for that exact tool. I know, it seems like a lot right off, but shims are not hard to come up with. They have to be "good", but not all that perfect. (Good is required though).
For example, in my world, with the rocker tool post, I have two holders that are good, but present the tool too high. I've "lathed" myself a washer that replaces the rocker at the bottom of the tool post with essentially a round shim of exactly the right height. Each of those holders has a shim made for it, and it lives with them at all times, in use or not. I also have a ceramic tool holder that arguably shouldn't be on my lathe on the best of days. That has a larger shim and I skip the tool holder all together, I clamp it on a thicker round "shim" directly under the lantern screw. That shim/spacer lives with that tool holder at all times. My parting tools, each of those has a washer, cut down to exact thickness, that I put under the rocker, so that they present pretty level out of the rocker, but still let me "rock" them just a whisker up or down.
In your case, how much shim do you need? Larger tool holders are a good thing, but also larger money. You said you're using 20mm? What size do you need? A small stick of cold rolled flat bar of a useful width and thickness could be cut into several spacers. As was already mentioned, an inexpensive set of automotive feeler gauges makes a GREAT starter kit for a shim selection to start from. It's far cheaper to buy shim stock in bulk, but you can't really buy bulk if you're buying every size.... A larger shim (spacer) from the bar stock, or heavy sheet metal in a common size (lower cost than oddball or custom stuff), plus a couple of the feeler gauges to fine tune to where it needs to be). If you're getting new tooling, now or in the future, I would suspect that what you need versus buying oversized for better fitment would save enough money to cover the shims. Further, as you are making things, you'll find things in your leftover turnings that could easily become a shim or spacer with a little machine time.
Wood is going to present issues. It "might, maybe" do "ok" for some things if it's crushed tight enough, but it's not a good solution. Metal is better. Preferably steel (any grade will suffice, some grades are less prone to rust, but they cost more), but aluminum or brass would be suitable as well if you found it somewhere. If you're buying it in though, I'd just go with cheeze grade hot rolled steel flat bars or sheet metal that you could cut up to what you need.
I'll say this too. My tool post is more outdated than yours, with a lot more degrees of freedom. Lots of folks don't like either because it's too inconvenient or too difficult to operate compared to more modern solutions. I think it's overblown in either case. Very real, but overblown. Practice, building a routine, and just using stuff, over time, and not even all that much time, makes it much faster and much easier to work with. Every time you have a problem and find a solution, it sticks in your brain, and pretty quick your fingers just know what to do with progressively less and less thought, effort, ant time expended.
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2011
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- 2,062
Yeah. I knew somebody would comment on that. I suspect that lathe used to reside in a highschool shop. No one machinist could possible do all that damage. Stu nailed it.
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- Jan 20, 2018
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Not to mention an SB doesn't have the power to do that much damage in one whack.
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2022
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- 171
Suppose I have enough budget to buy a QTCP with one or two holders, or a 3 jaw chuck with bolt on jaws (both cost me the same), which should I get first? Right now I only have a 4 jaw chuck.
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- Dec 2, 2012
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- 1,723
Get the three jaw chuck.
The 4 way tool holder is fine once you have figured out the shims for a tool and store them next to it. Also if you use the same size HSS blanks the tip height of the tool doesn't change much.
3 jaw chuck gives you a quick way of holding stock for most jobs and will most likely speed stuff up more than a tool post.
If you get a quick change tool post you need all your basic / most used tools in holders and at least one spare to put a random not the every day tool in for that special moment. If your swapping tools between holders it's going to become less of a speed benefit.
Mileage may vary , your own preference comes into play also.
Stu
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2018
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- 8,407
You beat me to it