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rung fu clone RF-45 ZX45 cnc conversion

Discussion in 'MACHINE BUILD LOGS' started by jumps4, Aug 22, 2012.

  1. jumps4

    jumps4 Global Moderator Staff Member Active Member

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    you can open the distance between the shafts as wide as the entire flex section of the coupling. only the section of the coupler that clamps to the shaft is required, any shaft extending into the center of the coupling does nothing. so if needed you can probably spread them out as much as an inch.
    steve
     
  2. Nigel Tufnel

    Nigel Tufnel Swarf Registered Member

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    Jumps - What travel are you getting in X and Y? Also, how's the quality of the mill and has it been reliable? I've been contemplating this same mill. Thanks.
     
  3. jumps4

    jumps4 Global Moderator Staff Member Active Member

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    hi nigal
    I'll have to get back to you on the X Y travel I have extended them both but I haven't measured the new travel, I just got the most I could.
    As far as the machine itself, I'm impressed more everyday. I have converted a few import mills now and during the break-in period you will see gray in the way oil from the surfaces seating in. On the zx45 all the dovetails and the gibs are scraped and must be matched very well, I have never seen any gray in the way oil and after a year of a lot of use I have only made one gib adjustment about a month after the first use. I have never found a scratch on any surface. I'm really happy especially since I spent more for stepper motors, electronics and cnc conversion materials than I did the mill.
    steve
     
  4. jbolt

    jbolt United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Steve,
    What are the grey and tan DIN mounted blocks that the AC wiring passes through? Also what is the 15vdc transformer for?

    DSCF0245 (1a).jpg

    Thanks,
    Jay

    DSCF0245 (1a).jpg
     
  5. jumps4

    jumps4 Global Moderator Staff Member Active Member

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    hi jay
    the switches in the front panel work off 15v to operate electronic relays for the coolant pump, 4th axis power supply and power to the mill motor. the left side blocks are jumped for 120v power distribution, the right side blocks are fuses to each power supply and the fans.
    steve
     
  6. Nigel Tufnel

    Nigel Tufnel Swarf Registered Member

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    Steve, I read through your thread a while back and have a couple questions in regards to your motors

    1) Are you happy with them? I think I recall them being ebay sourced.
    2) What max speed can you reliably machine at? Think they could go 60-80ipm if the spindle speed was up to the task? What about rapids?
    3) What voltage are you running?
    4) Is the power supply, stepper drivers and break out board from the same source as the motors? Any issues with them?

    I'm looking for motors/electronics currently and it would be nice to use something that is tried and true.

    Thanks
     
  7. jumps4

    jumps4 Global Moderator Staff Member Active Member

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    I have been very happy with my motors and associated electronics. I have purchased from wantai motor and longs motor on ebay and the only difference is longs will ship from the us, they have a warehouse in California. I no longer see the kit I used but if you contact longs by leaving a message on any of their cnc stepper motor kits adds, down at the bottom of the add is a contact with a question box. I don't know how many axis your machine will be but describe what your looking for. mine is a 4200 oz/in nema42 with controller 110v/120 input 80v out. for the z axis, 2 1600 nema34 motors and controllers with their own power supplies 80v for x y axis. and a 890oz/in motor, controller and power supply 60v for the 4th axis. the breakout board they give in the kits is garbage the opti-couplers are too slow. I use this breakout board for my projects ebay number " 171125792285 ".
    my mill will run at 200 ipm but I have it set to 100 max for safety. spindle power is never an issue because I run at high speeds less depth per pass and higher feed rates. you get done faster with less tool wear. It matters what you doing but most of my runs are under 30ipm cutting. and keep the coolant coming to clear chips and keep things cool.
    as far as being happy this machine has never failed to do anything I put it through. I entered a bad code and bent the soft shank portion of a 1/2" endmill in an ell. the power is there and the machine never misses steps under load.
    steve
     
  8. jbolt

    jbolt United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Steve, on the Z axis coupler, any slipping issues with the 12mm end?

    Jay
     
  9. jumps4

    jumps4 Global Moderator Staff Member Active Member

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    at first I had a problem until I remembered I didn't tighten the set screws. my coupling clamps and has set screws.
    if yours doesn't have a set screw I'd add one and drill a dimple into the shaft for it to seat into.
    steve
     
  10. jbolt

    jbolt United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Thanks Steve,

    Mine does not have set screws so I will add some.

    Jay
     
  11. ronthomp

    ronthomp United States Iron Registered Member

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    Hello,
    I am enjoying your conversion (still reading it). Thanks for sharing it!
    I see you are only 150 miles from me. I'm in Titusville, FL.
    I just pulled the trigger on a Grizzly G0755. Unfortunately, it says it's not available for immediate delivery. If it's going to be too long, I may cancel and go with another option.
    I intend to follow in your footsteps for a cnc conversion. I am a long time user of Mach3 with a Taig cnc mill and a scratch built cnc router. I also have a cnc Sherline lathe that is almost operational. It was a Spectra school machine and came to me without electronics. I also have some manual machines.
    I acquired a new rf-45 clone lower half a while back (gotta love Craig's list!) with the intention of fabricating a column and head, but decided to buy a machine to convert instead.
    I'm sure I'll have many questions.
     
  12. jumps4

    jumps4 Global Moderator Staff Member Active Member

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    Hi Ron
    if I can be of any help just ask
    it sounds like we took about the same path into cnc, I purchased a denford (sherline ) cnc mill and lathe and had to change over the electronics to get them running. then I converted my zx45 and my 9x20 lathe.
    steve
     
  13. ronthomp

    ronthomp United States Iron Registered Member

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    Thanks!
    I forgot to mention I also have an Enco 9x20 lathe that is a good candidate for cnc (no gearbox).
    Grizzly said they are "expecting" a delivery at the end of the month, but no firm date. I canceled and am shopping again. I may revisit the homebrew column. I got the bright idea of using used cast iron from car engines and such. A couple of linear slides would look good on there.
    I have a 3 hp 3ph motor and a vfd, so that would be a leg up. I'd really like a 30 taper or 40 taper spindle to ease the tool changer project I'm sure is in the future.

    If anyone has a column, please let me know.

     
  14. Bernie_nor

    Bernie_nor Norway Iron Registered Member

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    Hi,

    My build is going ok, but a tad slow at the moment. I've done all on the Y-axis except for the ballnut holder. And I'm nearly there on the X-axis as well.


    I'm now looking at designing the ballnut holders. I'd like to know what I'm up against with regards to space limitations. In an earlier post you (Jump4s) mentioned grinding away material several places. I've extendend the Y-axis 30mm the same way as you did. Anything I shuld do on the X-axis as well?

    I didn't find any drawings of the ballnut holders in the zip-files posted earlier.

    Care to give me som hints on the way?


    Cheers!
    Bernie
     
  15. jumps4

    jumps4 Global Moderator Staff Member Active Member

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    hi Bernie
    I'll go through all my pics and see if I can find some showing the ball nut mounts for you.
    steve
     
  16. jumps4

    jumps4 Global Moderator Staff Member Active Member

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    Bernie, I could not find drawings for the Y and X ball nut blocks but there are 2 pics and more info on page 7 in the thread. the only parts I made drawings of were the ones I was going to cnc, these blocks were made in the lathe.
    steve
     
  17. ronthomp

    ronthomp United States Iron Registered Member

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    The shopping went better than expected. I just ordered a 12Z Manual Mill from Charter Oak Automation.
    I should have it by the end of next week. Added bonus! I think it has enough table travel to machine a weldment column for the zx45 base I have.
    I intend to use 850 oz servos with gecko drives. That 4200 oz stepper motor is expensive!

     
  18. jumps4

    jumps4 Global Moderator Staff Member Active Member

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    the charter oak looks nice.
    are you going to use hiwin type guides on the weldment column or a dovetail?
    steve
     
  19. ronthomp

    ronthomp United States Iron Registered Member

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    That column project will be down the road, after the cnc conversion of this mill. I bought 20mm fully supported linear rails (sbr20) and matching (sbr20uu) bearing blocks from ebay. Similar to these: <http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Set-20-MM-FULLY-SUPPORTED-SBR20-630mm-LINEAR-RAIL-SHAFT-ROD-with-4-SBR20UU-/261396975916?pt=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item3cdc79512c>


     
  20. jumps4

    jumps4 Global Moderator Staff Member Active Member

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    I had a pm request for the motor nameplate pic
    steve

    DSCF1073.JPG
     
  21. bvd1940

    bvd1940 United States Active User Active Member

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    If you do not mind me asking how much you figure you have invested in the CNC parts in $?:thinking:
    I have an Enco 45 that I have been toying with the idea of converting to CNC.:nuts:
    If you dont want to disclose the cost I understand, dont mean to be nosy but weighing out buying a ready to go CNC against home built.
    And would you do it again knowing what you know now?
    I be a OLD retired machinist and have some parts that are repetitive (boring & tiring to build):thinking:
    I have a small rat machine shop out here in the desert with all the cactus and sage brush (peaceful) & make vintage Jaguar parts for a guy down the road and have fun EXCEPT for the repetitive parts.
    Thanks
    Bill
     
  22. jumps4

    jumps4 Global Moderator Staff Member Active Member

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    Hi Bill
    Including the new mill and a new 6" rotary table for the 4th axis and excluding tooling , vise and software. I have right at $4200 in my machine.
    I ran the machine for about 1 month then took it apart to thoroughly cleaned and readjusted everything. It has been a year and 4 months now and there has not been any further readjustment, just oil the machine before every use and press cycle start.
    I spent over 2 years doing research on other machines and cnc builds before purchasing the first part to build this one and I have never had to modify anything from my original design. No one I have seen yet sells a cnc mill in this size class with more powerful motors including Tormach .
    In my opinion the key to accuracy. repeatability and never missing steps is powerful motors. After all day of continuous running this mill will return to X-0 Y-0 Z-0 exactly. Installing a massive 4200 oz/in Z axis motor and not using lift cylinders to offset the weight of the 300lb head has made this machine very ridged.
    Using 1600oz motors on the X and Y axis and micro-stepping at 1000 steps per revolution, directly driving the 5 pitch screws made the motors really smooth and accurate. One step of the motor equals .0002 of travel and really accurate backlash compensation. A smaller motor would not have the power at 1000 steps per revolution to accomplish this accuracy.
    I wish my health was better, I'd be building and selling these machines.
    steve

    I started making these parts in the pic yesterday, zoom in and check out the finish. They are right off the machine and this is the roughing pass.

    DSCF1084.JPG
     
  23. Bernie_nor

    Bernie_nor Norway Iron Registered Member

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    Hello all,

    A short notice regarding the original breakout board that came with the motor-kit:

    This is actually a good board. It offers galvanic insulation when using two independent 5V sources and removing the two jumpers next to the four 5V/GND terminals. But it is to slow for high step rates. So I made a small modification. I exchanged the EL817S optocouplers with a much faster one: TLP118. This new one requres a 5V supply to the 5. pin. It does not fit perfectly, but there is no need to do any modifications to the cuircuit board itself. As I'm lazy I've only changed the optocouplers to the pins beeing used as step/pulse outputs.

    Now my PC is the weekest link with regards to high frequency stepping...

    Please let me know if anyone is interested in a modification procedure.

    Cheers!
    Bernie
     
  24. jumps4

    jumps4 Global Moderator Staff Member Active Member

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    that's good to know Bernie I have 4 of these left over from projects
    I use a UC100 usb controller between the pc and the breakout board and it feeds at a rate of up to 100khz, those boards would not do it.
    steve
     
  25. bvd1940

    bvd1940 United States Active User Active Member

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    Thanks for the info Steve, Do you have a parts list for shopping that you would be willing to share (I am to old to figure out what you did):thinking: and I dont buy green bananas anymore:nono:
    I have read all your posts and find them very enticing :))
    Anyhow very nice job and very educational thread:))
    UPDATE
    went back trough and compiled a book with all the data in it so I will have a reference to go to for shopping list, thanks for all the info for this OLD fart trying to get a taste of cnc machining, (old 73 years manual machinist ret.):))
    Bill
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2014
  26. ronthomp

    ronthomp United States Iron Registered Member

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  27. jumps4

    jumps4 Global Moderator Staff Member Active Member

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    I know this is way overdue but I'm sorry I forgot until I was cleaning the machine ways and remembered your question.

    X axis will go 30 but I stop 1/2" short on the ends for precaution so 29"
    Y axis will go 10 but only if you remove the bellows I stay set at 8" to save wear on the bellows
    Z is 13 without crushing the bellows

    sorry I took so long
    steve
     
  28. jumps4

    jumps4 Global Moderator Staff Member Active Member

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    I installed a 2hp high speed spindle today
    I haven't used it yet but the bracket is ridged
    steve

    DSCF1112.JPG DSCF1113.JPG
     
  29. Dirty Engineer

    Dirty Engineer Canada Active Member Active Member

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    Jumps4,

    Do you have any more information on this 2hp high speed spindle addition? I assume it came from ebay? Did you make the bracket? I'm in the market for a spindle and any insight would be appreciated.
     
  30. jumps4

    jumps4 Global Moderator Staff Member Active Member

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    hi Dirty Engineer
    I originally purchased the 2.2kw 3ph inverter for another project then I decided to us it and install a 1.5kw air cooled spindle on my sherline cnc mill for engraving. the install on the zx45 was after I had learned how powerful it really is.
    If I would have thought this through better I would have bought a 2.2kw spindle because it has a bigger collet chuck, er20 instead of er11, the er11 will only hold up to 7mm endmills and a er20 can hold up to 13mm.
    the air cooling blows down and not being in a dusty environment has worked fine with no noticeable heat up even after hours of prolonged use.
    the clamp that holds the motor mount to the spindle on the mill is the one the mill came with to work the depth gauge in the front of the mill.
    I also use that clamp to install a grinder when needed.
    the motor mount I made originally to install on the sherline and has alignment keyways milled into it. all I did was add another bolt hole to mount it on the zx45 mill bracket.
    if you check ebay, right now the 2.2kw air cooled with inverter is about $360 us delivered and the 1.5kw is $265 us delivered.
    I use flood coolant and the 1.5kw more than meets my needs it will remove a lot of material really fast. jobs that used to take a long time with small cutters on the zx45 due to a lack of rpm now take minutes.
    The inverter is mounted on the wall and the spindle has a cord long enough to move it to the machine I need it on. I'm gathering up the parts to make a remote to control the inverter at the spindles location. right now I have to reach over to the wall and that's not very convenient or safe if something may go wrong.
    steve

    DSCF1528.JPG DSCF1529.JPG DSCF1530.JPG DSCF1531.JPG DSCF1532.JPG DSCF1367.JPG DSCF1369.JPG DSCF1371.JPG DSCF1373.JPG DSCF1375.JPG DSCF1379.JPG
     

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