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Router Build

jbolt

Active User
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#1
Hopefully this will be the completion of a project I started 14 years ago. I recently dug out the controller/PC I built in 2001. I have gone through the control box and verified all the wiring was correct, updated the PC to a newer MB that can handle Mach3 and also updated to a more current BOB & UC100 motion controller.

The steppers are 214 in oz PowerMax NEMA23 which I think may be too small for the X & Y but I will start with them and make provision for 34 size steppers.

The table area is 24" x 36" with a work piece area of 18" x 27".

Construction is a mix of 8020 extrusions and aluminum bar stock.

X linear rails and ball screw are 20mm and the Y & Z rails and ball screws are 16mm.

Here are the Solidworks renderings. Router.gif router2.gif router3.gif
 

brav65

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#2
Looks great. My son and I are building one as a summer project. I don't have any cad software yet so I don't have any drawings that are presentable. We are planning on 36x48 with 4-6 of Z travel. We are going to use 425oz NEMA23 motors.
 

jbolt

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#3
Thanks brav65!

The 8020 and linear components arrived today.

Linear01.gif

The ball screws were supposed to have double ball nuts and they sent singles. I had this happen on another build and Chai took care of it quickly. Hopefully this will be the same. Both of the sets of 16mm rails are 25mm too long so I will need to cut them to length. Way better than being to short! The end cuts are really crude so being able to clean them up is a good thing.

I had enough time tonight to make the first parts. The X axis ball nut mount and the Z motor mount plate. I'm so thrilled to have done the mods to my mill and have the higher speed spindle. Machining at 3x the speed then as before is awesome but still a bit terrifying at the same time.
Parts01.gif

Hopefully my aluminum will be in by the weekend to get going on the rest of the parts.

Jay
 

jbolt

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#5
Gantry side plates, 8" x 19.5" x 0.625"

Parts03.gif Parts04.gif


Here is how to ruin a $30 carbide end mill. Forgot to pull the hardened dowel pin before I ran the profile. Pretty exciting to see sparks flying out of the flood coolant!

Parts06.gif
 

TomS

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#7
Gantry side plates, 8" x 19.5" x 0.625"

View attachment 103764 View attachment 103765


Here is how to ruin a $30 carbide end mill. Forgot to pull the hardened dowel pin before I ran the profile. Pretty exciting to see sparks flying out of the flood coolant!

View attachment 103766
Nice work!
Gantry side plates, 8" x 19.5" x 0.625"

View attachment 103764 View attachment 103765


Here is how to ruin a $30 carbide end mill. Forgot to pull the hardened dowel pin before I ran the profile. Pretty exciting to see sparks flying out of the flood coolant!



View attachment 103766
Nice work on the brackets!
 

jbolt

Active User
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#9
Made a simple stand for the machine out of 1-1/2" x 1/8" angle. Computer/power supply/stepper drives are mounted below on full extension slides. The keyboard and monitor will be on a pullout above.

Frame01.gif
 

rwm

Active User
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#11
Very elegant work. The QCTP idea is sharp too! Where did you source the spindle?
What do you plan to use this for?
R
 

jbolt

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#12
Very elegant work. The QCTP idea is sharp too! Where did you source the spindle?
What do you plan to use this for?
R
Thanks rwm. The spindle is from Automation Technologies. It is the 1.5kw 110v model. I have not found much information about others using this version so we will see how it works out.

The machine will be primarily used for plastics, wood and composites.

Jay
 

jbolt

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#13
I powered up the motors and my suspicions were correct. The 211 in/oz motors are not powerful enough to drive the axis with out stalling. I will have to order some different couplers to switch to the 800 in/oz 34 size motors I have. Hopefully the power supply will be sufficient to drive the larger motors.

Jay
 

JimDawson

Global Moderator
Staff member
Director
#14
To get maximum torque out of the 800 oz/in motors you will need a 70 volt power supply and 70 volt drives. What are your current power supplies and drives rated at?
 

coolidge

Active User
Active Member
#15
I seriously like that you are taking the level of quality to 10 on this project, nicely done so far! How about a pic of your cnc mill? And I'll ask it, the most common CNC question every asked, what are you using for flood coolant and how do you like it?
 

jbolt

Active User
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#16
To get maximum torque out of the 800 oz/in motors you will need a 70 volt power supply and 70 volt drives. What are your current power supplies and drives rated at?
The current power supply is made from a F401U transformer, 25000 mfd 50vdc capacitor & 25A rectifier. It puts out 34vdc.

Drives are some of the first generation Gecko 201's rated 24vdc to 80vdc, up to 7A.

F401U.gif

Motor is a 34H218D30B
PortescapMotorLabel.gif

PotrescapLabel.gif
 

jbolt

Active User
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#17
I seriously like that you are taking the level of quality to 10 on this project, nicely done so far! How about a pic of your cnc mill? And I'll ask it, the most common CNC question every asked, what are you using for flood coolant and how do you like it?
Thanks coolidge!

I have a build thread on the mill but here are a few pics.
PM923 converted to CNC, Belt drive/VFD conversion with 6K spindle, pneumatic drawbar, TTS tooling, flood & mist coolant, one-shot oilers.

pm932mill01.gif pm932mill02.gif pm932mill03.gif

For coolant I use Rustlick 5050 between 5% and 10% min depending on the coolant level as the water evaporates. Anything greater that 10% will cause some rust if not flushed off the table.

I like the coolant because it works well, has only a mild order that is not offensive, and does not irritate my skin if it gets on me.

The biggest drawback is it is very tenacious about removing paint and adhesives (tape etc.).

Jay
 

aeroHAWK

Active Member
Active Member
#18
To get maximum torque you need to deliver the specified current. Torque is a function of amps and the number of turns in the coil, or ampere-turns. Voltage relates to how fast you can turn the motor while maintaining the specified current.

The coils in the motor resist the change in current (turning coils on and off to make the motor turn) based on their inductance. The inductance will allow the current to change at a certain rate. Increasing the voltage increases this rate of current change. The faster the motor turns, the faster the coils need to turn on and off. At a certain speed the inductance will not allow the current to reach the specified amperage in the amount of time allowed, and the torque will begin to drop. So if you want to make your motor turn faster while maintaining a specific current, you need higher voltage.

Conversely, a lower voltage will limit torque at a lower speed. So 34v will still provide the holding torque, but the rapid movement will be limited.
 

jbolt

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#20
Nice. How do you like that compressor are they as quiet as they advertise?
The California air compressors are awesome. I usually hate having the air on but these are sweet. Mine is the 110v model and it works just as well as the 220v model we got for the school last year. Runs my mist system easily. Recovery times are quick too. I highly recommend them.

Jay
 

jbolt

Active User
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#21
To get maximum torque out of the 800 oz/in motors you will need a 70 volt power supply and 70 volt drives. What are your current power supplies and drives rated at?
So I guess the question is, what size PS do I really need? The all up weight on the gantry calcs to about 90 lbs being driven by a 20mm x 5mm pitch ball screw.

The steppers are 4-wire only so I'm not sure if they are considered wired in series or parallel?

The motor label says 24vdc but what does that really mean?

Jay
 

aeroHAWK

Active Member
Active Member
#22
Jay,
Since you already have what you have, I suggest you go with it as is. As I said in my other post, torque is not the problem with your power supply. You WILL get the rated torque if you can provide the required amperage. The issue will be how fast you can move. Voltage relates to SPEED. I'll bet you can get things running with what you have. If you later determine that you want higher speeds then a different power supply would be in order. Many find that they don't need high rapid speeds, especially if it is a small machine.

Using the maximum the drives will allow will get you the maximum performance available, but you may not actually need it.

4-wire steppers don't have the choice of parallel or series. This only means there is one choice instead of two when you look up the specs.

The motor label saying 24 vdc is there because the manufacturer says that voltage with the max current will not overheat the motor. Running higher voltage means you need to keep an eye on motor heating. My CNC mill uses Compumotor drives at 170 volts. Marris (Mr. Gecko drives) wrote a "White Paper" that does a very good job of explaining how you can make sure your motors are treated nicely. I suggest you download a copy. It shouldn't be hard to find.
 

jbolt

Active User
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#23
Jay,
Since you already have what you have, I suggest you go with it as is. As I said in my other post, torque is not the problem with your power supply. You WILL get the rated torque if you can provide the required amperage. The issue will be how fast you can move. Voltage relates to SPEED. I'll bet you can get things running with what you have. If you later determine that you want higher speeds then a different power supply would be in order. Many find that they don't need high rapid speeds, especially if it is a small machine.

Using the maximum the drives will allow will get you the maximum performance available, but you may not actually need it.

4-wire steppers don't have the choice of parallel or series. This only means there is one choice instead of two when you look up the specs.

The motor label saying 24 vdc is there because the manufacturer says that voltage with the max current will not overheat the motor. Running higher voltage means you need to keep an eye on motor heating. My CNC mill uses Compumotor drives at 170 volts. Marris (Mr. Gecko drives) wrote a "White Paper" that does a very good job of explaining how you can make sure your motors are treated nicely. I suggest you download a copy. It shouldn't be hard to find.
Thanks areoHAWK. I will give it a go with what I have as soon as I get new motor couplers.

Jay
 

jbolt

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#24
I got the motors swapped out and they drive all the axis just fine.

The problem I have now is 2 of the 3 drives work fine but one does not.

It powers up but does not send step/dir commands to the motor. I have verified the motor works, the drive is wired correctly and all connections are good. The BOB is outputting correctly for each axis. I don't know what else to check? Any help would be appreciated.

Jay
 

jbolt

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#26
Does a different motor work on the suspect drive? And the suspect motor works on a known good drive?
The motor works on a different drive. Nothing works on the suspect drive. I also swapped the step/dir/com wires to a different output and nothing.

I found an FAQ that said to check the drive with a ohm meter from pin 1 (power neg) to pins 3, 4, 5, 6 (motor) and it checks okay suggesting the mosfets are okay.
 

JimDawson

Global Moderator
Staff member
Director
#27
At this point I would pull all of the wires off of the drive and re-wire it. If that fails to produce results, then I would say replace the drive. If you have an oscilloscope, you can check the input signals to confirm them.

EDIT:

Another thought, re-check the dip switch settings.
 

jbolt

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#28
At this point I would pull all of the wires off of the drive and re-wire it. If that fails to produce results, then I would say replace the drive. If you have an oscilloscope, you can check the input signals to confirm them.

EDIT:

Another thought, re-check the dip switch settings.
No dip switches. These are 2001 era drives I have had since then but never used.

I will try a complete rewire next. I have access to a scope but have never used one.
 

jbolt

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#29
Well I tried everything I could think of and no go on the one drive. I swapped it out for an extra Chinese drive I had and everything is working. Bad news is the power supply is too small. The motors stall way too easily for the machine to be useful.

Now to figure out how to get a larger power supply into the limited space I have in the box.

Jay