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kdecelles

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#31
No brainer - get as much machine as u can without having to hunt your own food.

This is a 20 year decision , think about the future


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richl

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#32
Well mark, I guess I have you to blame, I just pulled the trigger on the pm1440gs w dro. It will be replacing a enco 1340. Really wanted to get more info from current owners before my purchase but the specs read well, it's a lot of lathe fore, some really nice upgrades

Best to you, and your new lathe as well as your new adventure!

Rich
 

MarkM

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#33
I came home today planning on ordering a lathe. Have a quick look at the Ipad and I see KD's quote. Makes me think a bit and decide to call a company I almost bought a Taiwanese 1440 out of California but couldn't make a deal. He said call in a few weeks you may get a different answer. So I called. He tells me they have a return in for a steal. Apparently they couldn't pay the Bill so they returned it and I guess they made money on the stocking fees and want it gone.
Someone was supposed to be there Friday and again today and never showed. He said to me "Money Talks" but he had to notify him. So if he doesn't answer the email or show up by the time I get home tomorrow. I going to go hungry for a couple weeks even thought it stretches my budget beyond anything I thought. I'd be a Baboon not to get it. This machine is more lathe than the original 1440. Sounds crazy but I don't want to jinx it so I going to keep it hush and not say what it is. Either way going to order a lathe tomorrow. Hope this time it's for real.
No sleep tonight!
RI I still think about the Gs. A great looking lathe
 

MarkM

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#34
The saga continues. Again come home and ready to order. This time figure out the rate. Holy Cow! Jeez more than I thought, Oh well I am ready to take my lumps I guess. Lifetime and no need to think about another manual lathe again. Taiwan built machine.one pc. cast. 2300lbs. a fair bit of threading capabilities which I am sure some of the pitches would match a few worm leads or at least be in a tolerant range to match some DP and Module threads.
They don't want to sell it yet. Even though he hasn't showed up. They have spoke on the phone. At least the dealer is a stand up guy! Twice he hasn't showed up and they weren't happy after having to rearrange there shop to display. Then I say ok call PM 1340gt here I come and decide I'd like to talk to Matt about the Cast Iron stand and a couple other things for down the rd. Well he was tied up so no luck there.
Decide to call the first place back and ask him if by chance it doesn't work out give me a call and he said he will give him until Friday now. Man I think FRIDAY! HOLY COW. more great sleep.
So I sat down and looked at some pm 1440 GS pictures.
Life can sure throw you some curve balls!
 

MarkM

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#35
Good day, Well the lathe which was an Eisen 1440 ge with a 9 inch bed 2300lbs with a one peace cast stand. Another Liang Dei Machine from Taiwan. 1400 rpm had a noise in the gear train. It was a returned item and this is still my dream 1440 lathe and am sure it is an awesome machine. who knows what happened to it a customer had it and returned it. Maybe not the lathes fault. Gears can easily be damaged. I am sure they are great. It was a little more than the gt with a dro. I should have known. I don't have luck like that. Thinking it was a deal of a lifetime even with the dollar. Car Bike or anything.
So now what? It's a harder decision than I thought. Our Cdn. dollar is brutal 36 cents off the dollar and add tax. Makes me think a lot about the 1236. Well set up proven but the Taiwan thing is hard to annoy! All Pm machines are great value. As the price climbs it makes it harder. I guess I should have never said by this day I'll buy a lathe. It's hard to lay down cash I guess.
 
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jbolt

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#36
What was the noise?

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MarkM

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#37
The sound I heard at first thought it was a noise in the shop from another machine. It was inconsistent which makes me nervous. Sounds like a bag of marbles for a few seconds and then goes away and comes back. Every single other rpm is butter smooth.
I'd buy someone lunch if they were willing to go have a look for me and take the cover off? They are in Ontario California. I wish I could look at it but at this distance I can't take a chance.
Kind of sounded like when you were a kid and put a hockey card or baseball card on your bicycle to flap against the spokes.
 

jbolt

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#39
That's unfortunate. On my PM-1440GT I get a little growl in one gear due to the shift arm detent location not being quite right so the adjacent gears rub a little. If I put pressure on the shift lever the noise goes away. At the next oil change I will pull the cover and see what needs to be done to fix it.
 

MarkM

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#40
Thanks Jbolt, Would it be your 1400 rpm by chance? Every other rpm is smooth. I believe there the same gearbox.
 

jbolt

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#41
Mine is a position M-1 which is 510 RPM.

The headstock and gearbox are different though they may share a few parts. The Eisen 1440GE is a little larger with a wider bed and headstock.
 

MarkM

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#42
Thanks for taking the time to look. I think it may be wise to let it go and stop dreaming. Hoping it may be a simple thing like a roll pin out of the shift fork off the shaft.
 

jbolt

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#43
Without seeing it first hand to evaluate the condition its a tough call unless the price is discounted enough to make any unforeseen pain worth your while. If it is being sold as-is with no warranty then I would expect a pretty deep discount just for that.
 

mksj

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#44
I would have somebody do a video with it running in the different gears, also in the gear with the noise, have them apply light pressure on the gear selector in either direction as it may indicate a fork alignment. If it is a dealer (or for that matter the seller), then they should pop the head and look inside and see if there is any damage and rotate the spindle in the noisy gear. If they will not I would walk away. You could easily put a VFD on it and never have to use that gear, but if you wanted to sell it at a later point and it had bad gear or something more serious, then you have paid a lot for a boat anchor. A bit of history on the machine would be helpful, if it is new and who is selling it. The 1440 GE is quite a bit beefier than the 1440E or 1440GT, it is also 1000lbs heavier.

I have a PM1340GT and there is one gear selection that is definitely noisier than all the other gear settings. Since I use a VFD, for the most part I just use the H and L gear selector for 2 speeds, everything else is done with the VFD.
 

MarkM

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#45
Yes the Ge is quite a machine. The nine inch bed and the one pc. cast really make it a game changer. All of my current 12 13 and 14 swing lathes I am looking at are in the same ball park on the bed width. A little over 7 and maybe a half inch or so. I actually think the 1236 has an advantage here being lower. In all accounts if they had the same mass I think the 1236 would be the most rigid being shorter from spindle to bed ratio.
Before purchase we went through the rpm range and other functions. It was new just returned from a customer. It is a Liang Dei machine. The fourth one I almost bought. Have asked about cover removal. Not sure how they are set up. I know they hired a machinist to come and run the machine and all is fine other than this one rev range. It is inconsistent as well which tells me there is something in there that is lazy and not secured. Me thinks a rotating gear hitting the fork and the fork gets passed its balance point and in a lazy manner falls again and makes a bit of contact with a gear and knocked back up past that point again and the cycle will continue until it is fixed or it starts its demise.
Crazy to take a chance on it but have you heard the saying he who never took the chance. Never had the chance. It really is a nice lathe and they have come down thousands and willing to pay half of shipping as well. First class company from my first phone call over four months ago. Very knowledgeable about every single machine I asked about. Theres Eisen and everyone elses.
Unless they rip the cover off and laugh about what it is and call me and offer the same price I am going to get the pm 1440GS. I sent and email off this morning stating what I wanted with the machine.
My reasoning for the 1440. A PM 1440 with NSK Japanese spindle bearings. Wanted a brake. I always wanted a 1440 from the get go thinking it can do a bit more and with my intentions it makes sense. The mass to help with interrupted cuts on repaired welded shafts. The two inch bore and another stat with a 1440 is the extra two inches over the saddle. Not all too often but rollers Augers and such on occasion, maybe a bit of prep work for welders on some pipes and flange. The one stat that that led me over the line with the Chinese and Taiwan Lathe is the Fact the Pm 1440GS is the only machine I can afford that will cut a full range of DP and Module Threads with its true devoted gearbox. It is some thing I just want to go and play with. Worms and Worm Gears, Have Never done them. First question I asked Matt on my first phone call some time ago. Which machine does DP and Module threads. HIs answer was none. All crazy money. Then the Gs and G0709 show up. HMMM! I know a big learning curve but that s half the fun for me. I'd like to make a reduction box for kicks and giggles and maybe help that blueberry farmer with his farm.
I am not expecting it to be a lifer like I first thought I would purchase. I will try to do a bit more maintenance. Eventually I would like three phase and a vfd new chucks and tooled up with more machines. Don't we all. I thought I was going to get a machine from Taiwan but It would have pushed me a bit too far. The Gs is ready and I can wire up the garage. and have a bit left over for some windows. I don't need to get anything else for now. Maybe one day I'll look for a Standard Modern or something. Or buy another 1440gs since I'll be completely ready for a scaled down version with hopefully having chucks being tooled up and maybe a vector motor to tow. One can dream. I may not get there but going to have fun trying and not go broke doing it.
Just going to be playing for some time like all of you. Don't know Jack but love to learn. and escape into a project. Good for the soul.
Thanks for all of your wisdom. Yes I may be Crazy! Been told that a few times.
 

richl

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#46
I like your thinking mark! For me, I would really appreciate having a vocal and experienced active member here to steal ideas from, and help inspire me to do some interesting mods with my machine. The pm1440gs reads on the data sheet to be a nice machine, except for the lack of variable speed, it comes very close to being the lathe I have been looking for the past three years (yes a wider bed and more weight would have also been on the list).

They told me last Monday delivery in 4-5 weeks, so if everything is on schedule, it's now 3-4 weeks. I have a lot of cleaning in the shop to do, a couple lathes to clear out, a bunch of old benches, cabinets, stands and misc. New cabinets to place, tooling, rearranging... it's fun times again! Possibly a manual mill to diy cnc gonna be a nice fab shop for personal and 1 off small scale projects.

Keep the energy and enthusiasm!
Rich
 

MarkM

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#47
I think the GS has a perfect speed box for a vfd. It could use a bit more selection as it is now with the rpm range but it still has a decent selection in the lower rpm range. A few speed options for threading if you want to push it a bit with carbide or turn your tool upside down and run the spindle backwards for higher speed threading. With just an 8 speed box a vfd would compliment it really well. You would have all the finesse you would need for rpm manipulation and the 8 speeds to spread you out and no need to purchase a vector motor since theres no need to alter the hrz more than 15 up or down from its 60hrz base motor speed. With a three phase motor the vfd the torque boost, and all the function of the vfd I think it would be a great machine. The soft start would help out with longevity as well. One day.
Will it last or how long will it be able to be used for precise machine work. It's not so much the tenths since I'll mostly file or emery cloth at that stage anyways but need it to be able to at least be trusted to manage a .001" tolerance. For me the maintenance program will have to be stepped up and will go through the machine starting with replacing all the hardware. Were supposed to be machinist and we should be able to fix make or maintain a machine unless the ways are shot. I figure If the maintenance program is stepped up and make some charts so all those lovely oiling ports are all used frequently and if something starts to need attention get to it and rectify it before it starts its demise.
I received an email from Matt stating the 1440gs with DRO will be in a few weeks and for me which sucks is that if I want a Gs without a DRO They will be in the next shipment Sept/Oct. I don't want to spend the money on a Dro now and Sept/Oct is along time away for me. Going to have to think about this one now. It's just that Sept/Oct gets close to the winter and have seen many not receive there machines on time. Not the importers fault. Just the way it is. Once winter sets in my garage is closed to getting a lathe in. I have a 94 Toyota pickup that is a project and she will be in the garage and in the way for winter. Probably apart being worked on. I need to purchase my needs now. My wants will come once I am a little more rounded as a shop.
 

Kiwi Canuck

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#48
Good time to pay your deposit as the exchange rate is going in the right direction. (mid market was low 1.32's this morning.)

Also set up an account with a company like EX exchange to wire the money to QMT which is usually a few points better than the regular bank rates with no fees. (Check with your bank first to see what their rates and fees are)

Matt will give you a better deal if you wire the funds as well rather than CC.

One last thing, let Matt know about your situation if you haven't already, he maybe able to help you make your decision by offering some concession on the DRO.

David.
 

MarkM

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#49
What a Roller Coaster Ride! Like I said earlier, Life can throw you curve Balls. I think I was committed to a few machines and willing to accept there offerings. A few times ready to spend some money and for some reason it didn't pan out.
Well I finally committed to a machine. After thinking and thinking about my purchase. Probably shaking a few heads I am sure. I decided to take the plunge and get the lifer in the end. In the end I decided if I was going to spend crazy money on the gt. Since I ist a lot of coin for a garage with an ambitious monkey that hasn't turned a dial in over 14 years.. I might as well spend a bit more and get exactly what I want. I have been hearing it since I started to think about getting back into machining. Get the biggest you can and even push out a bit. KD's saying in this thread about going hungry and it is a twenty year decision really hit home. It is for me. So I am getting the Eisen 1440 GE with the three phase five horse motor. A brand new one, not the one I first looked at. Going to need a vfd. Going to take my time on it all so don't care if it takes a few months to educate myself and go through the machine. In the end it is way more money than I was going to put out what I thought when I started this thread. A seed was planted when I almost bought the first one. I think it is what I was looking for. I guess those windows are going to have to wait.
 

mksj

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#50
Very nice machine, really a beast. At this spend level you want to make sure you are getting a functional machine and a warranty. I was looking into the same lathe as a possible VFD conversion for someone else.

You can do a simple VFD install and use the forward/reverse contactors to switch the VFD directions after stripping the high voltage wiring. There are are very few single phase 5Hp input VFDs, but what is common practice is to use a 3 phase VFD which is derated to run on single phase. Rule of thumb is to take the motor rating amps (something like 15A for 5Hp) and multiple it X 1.73 to get the VFD sizing in CT output amps. This works out to around 26A, but in this case you will never be pushing the motor anywhere near full Hp. You can fudge this down a bit by adding a DC choke, which is what I have on my mill VFD. The choke smooths the rectified AC pulses going to the capacitors, thus decreasing their stress. So the minimum 3 phase VFD would be 7.5Hp, the standard would be a 10Hp. There are other considerations such as the coolant pump being 3 phase. Usually the control system runs off of two legs of the power with a step down transformer. You cannot just connect the VFD to the machine input and have it run, if you want to do that get an RPC.They do make a VFD version of this lathe, but it is significantly more expensive.

There a three 5Hp single phase VFDs that I am aware of
The usual Huanyang (Chinese) VFDs, although I am a bit skeptical of their single phase ratings I would probably suggest a 7.5Hp version. http://www.gohz.com/5hp-vfd
PolySpede PC1-50 https://www.driveswarehouse.com/pc1-50-2123
Yaskawa CIMR-VUBA0018FAA

Otherwise you might consider a 7.5 or 10Hp 3 phase 230V VFD, some allow single phase input with a derating so you need to check the manufacturer.
So something like the WJ200-055LF probably with a DC choke or the WJ200-075LF
 

MarkM

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#51
Eisen have been willing to double there warranty on every lathe I talked to them about and way more than double on there electronics. Always had an answer, never referred me to the manual or website and willing to deal.
The five horse motor was a big consideration. As nice as it may be expense comes along with it. Everything is more expensive and I really don't need a 5hp. Three is more than enough.
The little research I have done and the few conversation I had with electricians about it is that I could either run my coolant pump parallel with the lathe motor with its own switch off the vfd. Get a cheap vfd for itself. or buy a 100$ single phase pump. Not to concerned.
I really didn't want to go three phase at this stage because I thought I needed to educate myself and feel the need to be able to do things on my own. Do as much as I can myself without dishing out money. I knew in the end I wanted the three phase and I'd be a fool to have to purchase a motor of this size down the rd. Be looking at around 1200$ so I figure it's best now and take as long as it takes with the vfd. Trying to be a one man show I need to be able to manage my own equipment and this Is one of those times where I am going to have to accept the fact I have some learning to do.
There are a few dedicated single to three phase vfds for a motor of this size but many three to three phase can be run off single. I plan on using a 10hp vfd to help take the abuse it may get with the peaks and valleys. Really just looking for a functional lathe at this moment. I even thought about the possibility of just using a three hp motor and am willing if need be but there isn't so I am pretty stoked. Thanks MKSJ for the time to post and research on suitable drives. Going to be an adventure I am sure.
 

kdecelles

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#52
Where will the unit ship from and what does that cost roughly if you don't mind me asking?


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kdecelles

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#53
If I followed this thread closely, you are in east coast of Canada....., eisen is in Ontario ca?


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MarkM

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#54
Yes that is right KD. I am on the Bay of Fundy in St. Stephen New Brunswick. I am one mile from the US border which is Calais Maine. Eisen are from Ontario California. I will be getting it delivered to Calais at a feed store that accepts parcels for us Canucks and they have a forklift to boot. Five bills or so is the standard rate but a different situation. It don't think it is bad at all if you want to come through the border. I believe Canada has no duty on lathes thinking let it in and things will be made here now. Your closer as well. If your not in a rush shipping probably your best bet to Vancouver.
 

MarkM

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#55
Now I have to figure out how to get it in the garage. Dig a trench 140 feet from the garage to the house. Get wired up. Cut up a Ten foot wood work bench for room. Set up the lathe and figure out the vfd. I think it may be wise to accept the fact It may be some time before I make some chips.
Any ideas on getting a 2300lb lathe in a garage. Thinking of getting a wrecker with a flat bed and another regular tow truck to get it inside and from there I can inch it around with a crow bar. I've moved around screw machines like this before. Any thoughts would be appreciated. I don't think I have enough ceiling height for an engine hoist with the straps and all.
 

richl

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#56
I moved a couple machines up an inclined driveway with a come a long anchor bolted into the concrete floor. Some pipes, a few big pinch bars made easy work of it for me.

Ymmv
Rich
 

kdecelles

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#57
I have a two ton gantry crane so my lathe was simple...... my gut says that this is a job for hydraulics ...... hire a service?




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MarkM

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#58
Good day, Did you use an adhesive or just your common anchor bolts with a plate with some surface area?
I have been thinking about hiring someone but no real riggers and not sure about that one so still need to be creative. I don't mind taking a lot of time. I'd rather inch it and just keep it low and secure. Maybe just put it down somewhat half in on a rigid plate and use toe jacks and I do like the control of a come a long. Maybe an anchor then. In the right spot it could be base for something down the rd. for a hoist of some sort.
The shipping is actually a bit more. Caught us both by surprise. We looked into another 1440 e some time ago and both parties thought it would be the same well it is a min 800$ but Eisen is willing to pay half the shipping costs and I am in no immediate rush so a little more investigation and maybe a few more machines to come east to reduce costs. More so we want to make sure a third party won't be used.
The one thing that worried about this lathe is the costs and how easily it can snowball, but then again machining is crazy expensive. Just have to make the right choices. Who knows If I can.
 

kdecelles

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#59
My lathe is an antique von wyck (circa 1903-1908), all cast on legs. It weighs north of 1500 pounds, and I was able to pivot it using a 4 ton floor jack and a block of cedar (telephone pole). Once it was balanced on block (mid way under ways) I could slide it with some effort

Completely different from your situation as you done have expanses of space underneath


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Eddyde

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#60
I moved my 2,300 lb. mill using 3' lengths of 1/2" steel pipe a 5' wrecking bar and a 6' J bar. I had to put some heavy angle iron under the base to create a flat surface to bear on the pipes but it moved pretty easily. I didn't need any jacks as the bars provided enough leverage to lift the machine high enough to get the angle under it and it up on the pipes. I did use an electric winch to pull it off the lift gate of the truck, I used a long piece of flat webbing through a window and out a door as an anchor point.
 
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