PM 728VT question

wachuko said:
It was not about how we spend the money…. I really appreciate the feedback. Just sharing some of my reasoning.

Like the OP (@yota ) , I do not want to regret the purchase….

If you have a model recommendation that would be better and in the same price range, would love to know.
Click to expand...
There have been TONs of posts asking 'what machine should I buy?' or something like that.

I don't post here much anymore as I got burned out after a few years of trying to answer the same questions over and over again. ;)

In order for anyone to give a recommendation there are questions that need to be asked.

What do you want to use the machine for?

What size material (i.e., small/medium/large) do you want to work on? (gives an idea of work envelope required)

What types of material do you want to work with?

What accuracy level of the machine is acceptable, e.g. Taiwan or Chinese manufacture?

How important is the machine warranty?

And so on and so forth.

Even with honest answers to these questions, you are relying on the knowledge (or lack thereof) and personal preferences of the person offering their advice. And these are (including myself) people who you don't know, and have no way of knowing just how well their recommendations/opinions will jive with your personal preferences, wants, and desires.

I know what you're going through, believe me. I start out years ago with a little sherline lathe and mill to learn on. Then I got into competitive pistol shooting and wanted to modify/build 1911 type pistols. I was told by several 'professional' machinists that this couldn't be done on my little 'toys'. So I went ahead and built my first competition pistol on my little toys. Not without having issues though. They are very small machines better suited to making pens than pistols out of hardened carbon and stainless steels. LOL...

Over the years I bought bigger and bigger machines as I could afford them. I learned that a smaller quality machine produced better results than a larger, more cheaply made machine. Everything is a tradeoff.

Can you give an idea of what you want to do with this mill?
 
wrmiller, I asked for opinions at the beginning of this thread and certainly welcome yours as much as anyone's. as I said in the 1st post, I'm completely inexperienced in this field and have very little experience in metal working period. I have less than a year or so on a lathe. I actually don't know what I will be working on exactly. just want to learn, don't really even know why. I retired and found an interest in this for some reason. I've done a bit of rehabbing of old American machinery and I guess this is maybe an extension of that. I live on the gulf coast and fish saltwater flats and also still ride dirt bikes pretty well for a 68 year old. I will be tinkering at first with making some small parts for boats and fishing and maybe for my bikes. I'd say aluminum would be the majority of my projects but stainless is def a possibility. as well as steel parts for the things I restore.

for all I know I may lose interest at some point or I may go full on as I usually do with my interests. a long tome ago I stopped buying junk tools as I always ended up getting something better once I realized their shortcomings (I know the 728VT is far from junk). just don't like continuing down that same path. to be honest, the 728VT is probably more than I need. having this on back order has just given me too much time to read about others experiences and second guess my choice. actually my 1st choice was the 932M but I was told that they would not be available for 3 to 4 months longer than the Taiwanese mills. that turned out not to be the case apparently. based on that info I put a deposit on the 728VT.
 
I bought a PM-30MV and it is a little lighter/smaller than I expected. I now have a Bridgeport clone too. I’d like to CNC the -30mv. It’s not that the -30 wasn’t big/heavy enough for much I needed, but certain things are more pleasant to do on the larger machine. And there are some more options with its bigger and more flexible configuration.
 
jwmelvin said:
I bought a PM-30MV and it is a little lighter/smaller than I expected. I now have a Bridgeport clone too. I’d like to CNC the -30mv. It’s not that the -30 wasn’t big/heavy enough for much I needed, but certain things are more pleasant to do on the larger machine. And there are some more options with its bigger and more flexible configuration.
Click to expand...
Absolutely! Everything is a trade off. I can do things on smaller machines, but I (most of the time) can do it easier on a larger machine. My machines (PM935T and PM1340GT) are not large machines. And to be honest, they are larger than I really need. But... having that articulating head and knee on my 'baby' bridgeport makes some setups way easier than it would be on a bench/bed mill. And I wanted a Taiwan mill as I was tired of the Chinese machines.

My 1340 was the smallest new Taiwan lathe that I could find (at that time) that had a Norton gearbox for threading along with the other features I wanted.

There is no one way to accomplish something. IMO of course. :)
 
jwmelvin said:
I bought a PM-30MV and it is a little lighter/smaller than I expected. I now have a Bridgeport clone too. I’d like to CNC the -30mv. It’s not that the -30 wasn’t big/heavy enough for much I needed, but certain things are more pleasant to do on the larger machine. And there are some more options with its bigger and more flexible configuration.
Click to expand...
and the PM30MV is 160lbs heavier and 1 hp more powerful than the 728VT.
 
I derive amusement from much of this banter. Everyone DOES have an experience which backs up their opinion. For many novices, they start out with a smaller and lighter mill, BEFORE they have figured out cutting tool ideal RPMs, Ideal feed rates, and have figured out how much better quality-designed cutting tools make. They have a learning curve, which can be steep for some materials.

With cutting tools, the correct type of face (or flute design), is only Perfect for a specific range of materials. Coatings matter a lot, as most coatings on the cutting bit is optimized for a specific range of material as well. For lighter machines, having asymmetrical flutes reduce chatter (for example). Most people start out cutting at too light of a rate, and end up burning up bits. They don't realize a heavier rate actually extends tool life. Too often people new to milling are horrified at spending 40+ dollars for a single end-mill. They don't realize it will make more cuts than four $20 end-mills combined.

All of these factors impact "the impression" people have with their "starter machine". After a couple years of experience, I bet many people could "fall back" on their starter machines, and produce much better results. On the Lathe side of the house, I am always impressed with the cuts and finishes that some of the "Sherline Folks" are able to produce with what appears to be a very dainty and under-powered lathe. There is clearly more to this than meets the eye. However, bigger/heavier/stiffer machines are good at masking some of the mistakes in set-up of novices. And perhaps that should be weighed as a serious benefit. Or, in other words, the bigger machines grant you a greater margin of error, and still produce a satisfactory result.
 
addertooth said:
I derive amusement from much of this banter. Everyone DOES have an experience which backs up their opinion. For many novices, they start out with a smaller and lighter mill, BEFORE they have figured out cutting tool ideal RPMs, Ideal feed rates, and have figured out how much better quality-designed cutting tools make. They have a learning curve, which can be steep for some materials.

With cutting tools, the correct type of face (or flute design), is only Perfect for a specific range of materials. Coatings matter a lot, as most coatings on the cutting bit is optimized for a specific range of material as well. For lighter machines, having asymmetrical flutes reduce chatter (for example). Most people start out cutting at too light of a rate, and end up burning up bits. They don't realize a heavier rate actually extends tool life. Too often people new to milling are horrified at spending 40+ dollars for a single end-mill. They don't realize it will make more cuts than four $20 end-mills combined.

All of these factors impact "the impression" people have with their "starter machine". After a couple years of experience, I bet many people could "fall back" on their starter machines, and produce much better results. On the Lathe side of the house, I am always impressed with the cuts and finishes that some of the "Sherline Folks" are able to produce with what appears to be a very dainty and under-powered lathe. There is clearly more to this than meets the eye. However, bigger/heavier/stiffer machines are good at masking some of the mistakes in set-up of novices. And perhaps that should be weighed as a serious benefit. Or, in other words, the bigger machines grant you a greater margin of error, and still produce a satisfactory result.
Click to expand...
I suspect you are correct in some cases, but then I run across people who form opinions based solely on what someone told them, or what they read on the Internet. But hey, everyone (including myself) is entitled to their opinions.

I also find it amusing how people equate machine weight with machine rigidity, with no reference to design (or lack thereof). But everyone has to start somewhere. I did.
 
WRMiller,
Yep, there are more facets than I mentioned. My post was already too long, and was at risk of being wearying.
Good to see your post, near-neighbor.
 
except in this case we had a guy who owns the very machine we are discussing and he stated what he feels is its lack of rigidity with certain metals. apparently you don't think he knows what he's talking about. maybe he is inexperienced.

reading and talking to others are the only things we newbs have to go by. at least we aren't assuming we know it all and are asking the questions.
 
yota said:
except in this case we had a guy who owns the very machine we are discussing and he stated what he feels is its lack of rigidity with certain metals. apparently you don't think he knows what he's talking about. maybe he is inexperienced.

reading and talking to others are the only things we newbs have to go by. at least we aren't assuming we know it all and are asking the questions.
Click to expand...
How could I know if he knows what he is talking about? There were no specific details given about his 'projects', i.e., what he did or how he did it.

I didn't draw any conclusions, but you apparently are as you are drawing conclusions about what I think. I simply stated that there were no details about his projects. This was my post:

"
Really? You don't know what specific material was cut, you don't know the depth of cut, the feed rate, nor the type/size of the cutter. That post didn't tell you anything other than he did "a couple of stainless projects".

I've milled stainless on smaller machines than a 728 just fine. But maybe I was just lucky. YMMV of course.
"

That is all I said. And I will stop here. Have fun with your new machine.

(this kind of stuff is why I stopped posting here...)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top