PM-1340GT/833T(V): Lots of questions

[matthewsx]

Wow. Smaller world. My highschool years were near Freedom, just outside Watsonville. Spent a lot of time in Santa Cruz. Hope you came through the fires safely.

just smoke and ash here. Other members were a lot closer to the fires.

John

 

[tjb]

Best seller material

Ditto.

 

[synfinatic]

Thanks @Rich V ! That's very helpful.

 

[macardoso]

I'm trying to figure out where this should go in my garage. Realistically, how much of a gap will I need behind the machine (assuming it will be up against a wall)? Seems like it might end up with a foot or more for the 1340GT since I'll be using an engine hoist to install it and will need to put one of the legs behind the base? I don't own an engine hoist so will have to buy, borrow or rent so not exactly sure what is reasonable here and I've never installed something like this. Also, not sure about any concerns for maintenance, wiring, etc.

For a lathe this size, I'd want to be able to walk behind it with relative ease. Sometimes helpful for setup, and very helpful for cleaning the chips that will fly back there.

How much room to the side of the headstock is reasonable? I assume without any support other than the spider I would make myself, realistically with the 1-9/16" hole a couple of feet is more than enough before things get scary? I'll probably want a few feet just to access the change gears, wiring, etc as well.

You need enough room to swing the headstock door open. Beyond that, I'd want a minimum of 36" from the face of the chuck to the left so I could use 3' bars of stock. You also need enough room to walk around the side to get behind the lathe.

I understand the tail stock doesn't really need any space off to the right?

I've taken mine off the lathe a few times for various reasons. It would probably be wise to not get it so close to a wall that this is impossible.

I used to hear that lighter machines with less HP really should use HSS. Lately though, I've noticed more people are talking up the benefits of carbide tooling for hobbyist machines. Not to mention "light and low power" is relative- although I assume the 1340GT still qualifies? I was originally kinda afraid of having to not just learn how to use these machines, but also how to grind HSS tools, but watching some videos... doesn't seem that hard to learn. Also, not all carbide tooling is equal. I'm so confused now. If I can go carbide and make the learning curve a bit less steep, I'm very tempted to do that. Basically what I'm asking is for recommendations, ideally with links or names to things that don't suck too much, but when the newbie breaks it won't have him crying. If the PM kits aren't horrible then happy to get those. Or if I should do HSS that's awesome too... any recommendations for good bang/buck?

You'll find hundreds of discussions on here to this topic. Both options are great. Carbide works fine at slow speeds and light cuts, but select the right inserts. I'm a carbide guy. I like that the inserts are always the right geometry, and I do not grind anything in my basement shop due to the mess it makes.

Should I be concerned the cross slide only has markings for +/-60deg? I assume if you want to cut threads at 29deg you just eyeball it? No idea if other, unmarked values are at all useful?

Yes, but there are ways around this. I bought a 30 60 90 setup block from Shars for cheap that I use to set the compound to 30 degrees referencing the chuck face.

Curious about other accessories like drill chucks, BXA tool posts, live centers, "high precision" 3 & 4 jaw lathe chucks, etc? If not from PM, do you have suggestions for reasonably priced quality options that is appropriate for these machines?

I buy import stuff. Been impressed with Shars. Bit more expensive than some, but they give good service and better than average quality for import goods IMO.

Was not planning on getting DRO. But, some people say once you get DRO on a lathe you'll never go back?

I waited 2 years to get mine. Big fan but it isn't necessary. You should probably use the lathe for a month or two without it to learn backlash compensation and technique. Install is a pain but not terrible. AliExpress has some nice models for $300 or so.

Are people finding the column trammed well enough from the factory? Maybe it's just me, but trying to do it right the first time on my $6K mill and knowing I'm epoxying it in place as it drys is scary. Seems like it would be a really expensive mistake to get wrong.

Consider the epoxy a bedding compound. If you get it wrong, it will not hold the parts together, scrape it off and try again.

There are flood coolant options for both and I grok the value of coolant, but I also know other options exist (FogBuster, etc) but other than "coolant good" I don't know much. Worth getting from PM?

Flood coolant will go bad if not used often. Fogbusters are nice but the aerosol mist is hazardous in enclosed spaces. Oil smokes and makes a mess. Pick your poison. I use small squirt bottles to spray on synthetic flood coolant as needed. Coolant is not recycled.

Lastly, is there anything you wish someone told you before you bought all this stuff and threw it in your garage? I know the basics (You'll end up spending equal or more in tooling than for the machine.) and I've read various reports and threads by David Best and others here. Seems like the 1340GT is a clear favorite while the 833T seems like a good quality machine with a few unfortunate quirks that are dictated by its price point?

I think that planning for tool organization and workbench space is more important than machine layout. Maybe some sort of floor treatment to keep the oil from staining concrete.

 

[synfinatic]

@macardoso:

Thanks for all the info. That's useful.

I totally thought the epoxy bedding compound was basically permanent. That changes things. Thanks for the info!

I've been playing with some 2d drawings of my garage space and various storage racks, machines, work benches, etc trying to find something that makes best use of the space and provides a good working area. Previous owners of our home left some crappy particle board storage cabinets which I'm finally getting rid of to make way for racks & see-through bins. Trying to get more workbench work area (never can have enough) while ensuring easy access to the most important parts even when the car is in the garage. All while trying to keep the blasting cabinet as far as possible away from the machines.

It does mean though I really want the lathe as far back against the wall as I can. Cleaning back there... well, I want to keep a clean shop, but we'll see. Rather push it back then have it in the way while I work on the motorcycle... wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the controls on the carriage sticking out.

I keep dreaming of doing the epoxy floor thing, but I had a friend have it done professionally and they had all kinds of problems with it peeling. If I can find something that really does work well, it probably would be worth the effort to remove everything from the garage to make it happen... but might be a challenge with the weather if we start getting rain. Probably now or never.

 

[erikmannie]

I bought 3 PM machines in the last 12 months. A few things I learned:

(1) I love a factory DRO,
(2) My American Rotary AMP-10 rotary phase converter got me to the point where I was making chips much faster than if I had chosen to run a VFD,
(3) The tooling & metrology equipment will blow up anybody’s budget,
(4) Err on the side of leaving too much room behind and to the sides of a machine. I have carts with tooling on them. I wheel the carts out of the way when I need to walk behind the machine (accessing electrical panel & frequent cleaning),
(5) Precision Matthews customer service has your back. Don’t ever worry about being let down by PM,
(6) Machining is such a fun hobby, but it can be a little expensive,
(7) I gather than you are in the Bay Area. The Crucible in Oakland offers weekend manual machining classes. I took the basic class twice; this will definitely get you hitting the ground running,
(8) I moved all of my grinding operations out of the 2 car garage that contains my machine tools. I don’t want grit anywhere near a precision machined surface,
(9) Embrace both carbide and HSS. I switch back & forth for different applications,
(10) I think everybody agrees that you need an X-axis power feed on a milling machine,
(11) I use dark screw cutting oil as well as Mobilmet 766 cutting fluids. A little messy, but the surfaces of the machines are always happy,
(12) I know you know to keep your wits about you around the spindle & chuck 100% of the time. I look around a final time before I power up,
(13) I often choose what to buy while I am watching YouTube. I search for processes that interest me. All too often I see tooling or metrology equipment that is recommended for the process.

 

[erikmannie]

I saw that you are considering storage. Almost everything I have is on carts. The chips are going to fly everywhere.

I would not be able to keep my shop as clean as I like without being able to quickly roll away my carts, not to mention the ability to bring the tools to where you are working or reconfigure most of your shop in a few minutes.

Are you able to permanently leave the car outside the garage?

 

[synfinatic]

@erikmannie :

Thanks for all the tips!

Regarding the car: Honestly a big reason for having the car live in the garage is that it becomes a forcing function to clean the garage and keep it tidy & organized(-ish). Also it's a nice BMW M2 and I'm trying to keep it nice. So yeah, life is a series of compromises and this is one.

That said, I do have various carts/rolling toolboxes today. When the car isn't inside, I definitely take advantage of that. But moving the lift with the bike is a very different thing. Yes, I can move it a little here and there, but it's a few inches.

Anyways, going to have to play with my garage design (I drew everything to scale and then cut out representations of everything so I can see what fits where) and see if I can find a good working zone and still allow the enough room for the car + bike lift. Maybe I can make it work and leave a few inches worth of gap without it being completely in the way.

 

[ArmyDoc]

@macardoso:
I keep dreaming of doing the epoxy floor thing, but I had a friend have it done professionally and they had all kinds of problems with it peeling. If I can find something that really does work well, it probably would be worth the effort to remove everything from the garage to make it happen... but might be a challenge with the weather if we start getting rain. Probably now or never.

See if they used a real two part epoxy, or if it was partly solvent based. As I understand it, with a good acid prep, and providing the cement isn't stained with oil already, the two part epoxy is extremely durable, where as the ones that use a solvent aren't

 

[macardoso]

@macardoso:

Thanks for all the info. That's useful.

I totally thought the epoxy bedding compound was basically permanent. That changes things. Thanks for the info!

I've been playing with some 2d drawings of my garage space and various storage racks, machines, work benches, etc trying to find something that makes best use of the space and provides a good working area. Previous owners of our home left some crappy particle board storage cabinets which I'm finally getting rid of to make way for racks & see-through bins. Trying to get more workbench work area (never can have enough) while ensuring easy access to the most important parts even when the car is in the garage. All while trying to keep the blasting cabinet as far as possible away from the machines.

It does mean though I really want the lathe as far back against the wall as I can. Cleaning back there... well, I want to keep a clean shop, but we'll see. Rather push it back then have it in the way while I work on the motorcycle... wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the controls on the carriage sticking out.

I keep dreaming of doing the epoxy floor thing, but I had a friend have it done professionally and they had all kinds of problems with it peeling. If I can find something that really does work well, it probably would be worth the effort to remove everything from the garage to make it happen... but might be a challenge with the weather if we start getting rain. Probably now or never.

I do have to say that I have not personally done the epoxy bedding but I have read about it. The benefit is a solid surface to place under compression to correct the inaccuracies of the interface between bolted parts. The epoxy will not be easy to remove, but it will not be as strong as the base iron. A paint scraper and elbow grease should take it off just fine. You could also coat the iron surfaces with mold release to keep the epoxy from wetting the surfaces. You aren't relying on the adhesion really, it just becomes a form matching wedge to squeeze in between the parts.

I also haven't done the epoxy floor but I started researching it. Another person recommended a non-acid stain followed by a polyurethane sealant.