PM-1340GT/833T(V): Lots of questions

[Winegrower]

When do you plan to hit the market, David? This looks like “a story that needs to be told”.

Here’s a purchase commitment!

 

[ahazi]

I have the 833T. If it was available when I bought my mill I would have opted for the 833TV. Reason being is that the 833TV is belt driven resulting in a quieter mill (mine is louder than I expected) along with a higher top end speed which is better for aluminum. I believe that the 833TV is also a better candidate for CNC conversion because of the existing belt drive configuration.
Congrats on your decision.

I agree about the noise. The gears, especially at higher RPM are quite noisy. Not a big deal when you do deep cuts or use large tools that create their own noise removing big chips but it can get annoying otherwise.

I decided to keep my 35 years old RF25 (belt driven round column mill/drill) as a drill because it is quieter and allows me to drill while the PM833T has some setup that I don't want to take apart. In low RPM the noise level of the PM833T is reasonable and I like the high torque with large cutters.

Ariel

 

[matthewsx]

Wow. Small world. I grew up near Westgate.

I grew up at Bollinger & Miller with a short stint in Campbell. Happy to be back in NorCal walking distance from the beach.

Your machine choices sound fine, just place the order and start making chips.

John

 

[davidpbest]

When do you plan to hit the market, David? This looks like “a story that needs to be told”.

Here’s a purchase commitment!

Thanks. The manuscript is basically finished - just doing final edits and fact checking. It's been a labor of love for going on 4 months now. I'm struggling with what to do with it once it's finished. Several options being considered including eBook, printed with either perfect or spiral binding, going straight to YouTube fame and fortune, etc. If you have suggestions, let me know.

 

[matthewsx]

Thanks. The manuscript is basically finished - just doing final edits and fact checking. It's been a labor of love for going on 4 months now. I'm struggling with what to do with it once it's finished. Several options being considered including eBook, printed with either perfect or spiral binding, going straight to YouTube fame and fortune, etc. If you have suggestions, let me know.

Digital format, copyleft and accept donations through PayPal or Venmo.

John

 

[Aukai]

Best seller material

 

[ddickey]

@davidpbest If you need a proof reader let me know. My nephew does that.

 

[ArmyDoc]

I grew up at Bollinger & Miller with a short stint in Campbell. Happy to be back in NorCal walking distance from the beach.

John

Wow. Smaller world. My highschool years were near Freedom, just outside Watsonville. Spent a lot of time in Santa Cruz. Hope you came through the fires safely.

 

[parshal]

I have both the machines you're looking at. I posted a thread about adding a quill DRO to the 833TV. @davidpbest has also posted in a couple places the ones he's added on similar machines. It took quite a bit of time for me but it works great.

 

[Rich V]

My 2 cents. I own a 1340 GT lathe & 935TV mill for several years as a hobbyist.
First about the 1340GT:

First about the 1340GT:

1. I'm trying to figure out where this should go in my garage. Realistically, how much of a gap will I need behind the machine (assuming it will be up against a wall)? Seems like it might end up with a foot or more for the 1340GT since I'll be using an engine hoist tofrom install it and will need to put one of the legs behind the base? I don't own an engine hoist so will have to buy, borrow or rent so not exactly sure what is reasonable here and I've never installed something like this. Also, not sure about any concerns for maintenance, wiring, etc. You can place the lathe very close to the back wall just leave enough space so you can access & work on the motor and electric box should the need arise.
2. Speaking of engine hoists, I am a little worried about clearance during install since the area of my garage I'm looking to install it has some built-in storage 85" above the floor. I assume that should be plenty to work, but probably better to check if anyone has tried to install it in a similar situation. Typically you place the lathe stand where you want the lathe then lower the lathe onto the base. You'll need to decide what will work with the space you have.
3. How much room to the side of the headstock is reasonable? As much as you can spare but at least 3 feet so you can run long stock. I have run 4 ft of 1.5 inch stock using a spider. I assume without any support other than the spider I would make myself, realistically with the 1-9/16" hole a couple of feet is more than enough before things get scary? I'll probably want a few feet just to access the change gears, wiring, etc as well.
4. I understand the tail stock doesn't really need any space off to the right? You will need space to remove the tail stock for cleaning also that end of the lathe is a great place to hang a tool rack for your tail stock accessories. At least 18 inches.
5. I used to hear that lighter machines with less HP really should use HSS. Lately though, I've noticed more people are talking up the benefits of carbide tooling for hobbyist machines. Not to mention "light and low power" is relative- although I assume the 1340GT still qualifies? I was originally kinda afraid of having to not just learn how to use these machines, but also how to grind HSS tools, but watching some videos... doesn't seem that hard to learn. Also, not all carbide tooling is equal. I'm so confused now. If I can go carbide and make the learning curve a bit less steep, I'm very tempted to do that. Basically what I'm asking is for recommendations, ideally with links or names to things that don't suck too much, but when the newbie breaks it won't have him crying. If the PM kits aren't horrible then happy to get those. Or if I should do HSS that's awesome too... any recommendations for good bang/buck? I used carbide on a 9 inch Southbend lathe, the 1340 loves carbide and so will you. What to buy is a question worth it's own thread.
6. Never used a lathe before and seems like getting the 3ph option + VFD is a nice upgrade since it allows more fine control as well as higher RPM than stock (2000 apparently is perfectly reasonable with the Norton gearbox). I also grok that doing a VFD right isn't exactly cheap, but if it's worth it, then it's something I'd strongly consider doing. Seems like people got by for 100 years without VFD's, but then again we survived riding horses for longer than that and I sure don't want to give up my car. Or just get the 1ph motor and run it like that and worry about upgrading to VFD later? Sounds like the PM 3ph motor actually works pretty well for VFD, but there are better options? Mostly, not sure if VFD really helps newbies like myself enough to warrant the added upfront cost. I added a VFD after ~6 months of buying and it was well worth the cost & effort so I'm all for getting a VFD.
7. Should I be concerned the cross slide only has markings for +/-60deg? I assume if you want to cut threads at 29deg you just eyeball it? No idea if other, unmarked values are at all useful? +/-60deg is plenty. As to threading the compound angle can be set at ~ 29 or 0 degrees. The tool geometry sets the thread angle and the tool is always aligned to be at 90 degrees from the work piece.
8. Curious about other accessories like drill chucks, BXA tool posts, live centers, "high precision" 3 & 4 jaw lathe chucks, etc? If not from PM, do you have suggestions for reasonably priced quality options that is appropriate for these machines? That is a big question! At a minimum you will want/need a quality 3 & 4 jaw chuck, a live center and a good drill chuck. A quick change tool post is a must in my opinion. As to what brand to buy, that is determined more by your wallet. Lots of brands are available and everyone will have their own suggestions. Tell us how much $$ you can spend and we will spend it for you.
9. Sounds like I'll probably want to replace the belt and tool post right away and get some basic tooling. I figure my first lathe projects will be learning projects and things that will be useful- like a machinist hammer. Any other things/tooling I should consider buying up front? See above, whatever you can afford.
10. Was not planning on getting DRO. But, some people say once you get DRO on a lathe you'll never go back? I have the 2 axis DRO from PM and could not go back to using dials. Buy it installed is my recommendation $$ allowing.

And the 833T(V): I'm not familiar with this mill so limited answers from me.

1. Same question about the gap to the wall in the rear. Is 6" enough? I assume that would give me enough room to do whatever I might need, like tram the column?
2. I have a heavy duty (and quite heavy) metal storage box for ammo. Measures 28"W x 32"D x 30"H. I'd love to be able to put it right next to the mill on the right hand side in the corner of the garage. I think it is low enough it should clear the table when it moves, but I am worried that would just be in the way should I ever need to "do something"? I assume if I do this, getting the Z axis power feed option is almost mandatory since it would likely make it harder for me to manually rotate the Z crank (especially since I'm 5'7"). Optionally, I may end up putting it on the left side of the mill (not in the corner) for other logistical purposes. That might end up being better option due to the Z crank?
3. No quill DRO seems pretty lame and I've yet to find a write up of someone adding one. Seems totally doable though right? Any tips? There is always a way to add this and people here can help.
4. So I get the 833T will drill large holes in steel better than the 833TV. Honestly, I don't know if I will ever CNC my mill, but I do expect to primarily use aluminum for my projects which has me leaning towards the TV model. That said, I assume the 833TV can do larger holes in steel, just means doing it differently/slower?
5. Seems like the X & Z power feeds and DRO for the 833T are generally considered "must buys" sooner rather than later. Worth getting from PM? The X power feed is a must for any mill. The other axes have benefits but get the X at a minimum.
6. PM is of course offering a bunch of other accessories. From what I gather, I'm probably better off with a high quality vise for the mill sold elsewhere. Beyond that, I don't hear much about their price vs. quality? Collets, keyless drill chucks, etc? Get a good keyless drill chuck and a set of collets that match the spindle. After you become familiar with using the mill a set of ER collets & holder can be useful.
7. Recommendations for tooling to start off with? I know some 2 & 4 flute endmils for steel/aluminum, roughers, something to face and the vise, clamps/T nuts and parallels. Seems like there are a billion options and it's rather overwhelming. If there are any "starter kits" you can recommend that would be awesome. As a newbie stick with HHS cutters. You will wreck a lot of tooling learning and HSS is tougher and cheaper to learn with.
8. People do seem to complain about the draw bar on the 833T(V) being difficult to use. Thoughts? I haven't searched for an aftermarket power draw bar option. Might be a cool project though.
9. Are people finding the column trammed well enough from the factory? Maybe it's just me, but trying to do it right the first time on my $6K mill and knowing I'm epoxying it in place as it drys is scary. Seems like it would be a really expensive mistake to get wrong.

General questions:

1. There are flood coolant options for both and I grok the value of coolant, but I also know other options exist (FogBuster, etc) but other than "coolant good" I don't know much. Worth getting from PM? Flood cooling is not needed as a hobbyist and is very messy (my opinion). Get a Noga mister and it can be used on both the mill & lathe. Buy a gallon of Cool mist and you'll be set for years.
2. I also will need a band saw. PM sells a "mid priced" one. I've seen a band saw operate a few times, and I really don't understand the difference between a $1300 and $2500 band saw, but I do see the difference from the $300 one from HF. I'm sure the $2500 options are "better" somehow, but do I really need/want it and just not know it yet or am I totally fine paying $1300? I assume it's better than the one from HF for $1K?
3. General wiring question: I have 100A into a small panel into my garage. The electric car charger is on a 240/40A breaker and my 60gal compressor is on a 240/30A. The panel is full (the other 120V breakers are doubles) and would like to avoid installing a larger one if possible. Was thinking of just running power from the lathe/mill to the outlet for the compressor and then just plug in whatever machine I need as necessary. Thoughts? Since it's a 60gal compressor I was thinking I probably wouldn't need to run it that often while running the machines, but that might overly optimistic and I really need to budget in for a bigger panel or maybe wire the machines in to the car charger circuit- although that may be more expensive for the lathe due to the wiring distance.
4. Lastly, is there anything you wish someone told you before you bought all this stuff and threw it in your garage? Yes the cost of the basic machines is just the beginning of the $$$ you will spend for tooling. Thankfully you can acquire what you need over time and you will always have a list of Christmas presents for when someone asks what you want. I know the basics (You'll end up spending equal or more in tooling than for the machine.) and I've read various reports and threads by David Best and others here. Seems like the 1340GT is a clear favorite while the 833T seems like a good quality machine with a few unfortunate quirks that are dictated by its price point?