- Joined
- Dec 17, 2012
- Messages
- 630
A friend of mine has the 1127VLB and really likes it. Seems like a nice solid lathe.
-
Welcome back Guest! Did you know you can mentor other members here at H-M? If not, please check out our Relaunch of Hobby Machinist Mentoring Program!
Newby lathe advice needed
- Thread starter visenfile
- Start date
I think this statement is spot on. Many will disagree.
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2014
- Messages
- 349
The old US iron vs new import is just like the Ford vs Chevy argument.
I started out with a brand new Smithy 1340 Granite and as a lathe it was capable of doing some very nice precision work right out of the box. I needed to make chips right then and there, and the smithy did exactly that.
I replaced the Smithy with a South Bend 13 that I had to do almost a complete restoration to before I could use it.With the price of the South Bend and restoration, it was cheaper than the Smithy and more capable.
I replaced the South Bend with the Monarch that is my avatar. The Monarch was bought as you see it, plug and play and very, very, (emphasis on very) well tooled for less than I could buy a new Grizzly G0709 gunsmith lathe. It was on Craigslist and I was in the right place at the right time.
If you are in a hurry and want to make chips from the git go, it's hard to beat some of the better quality imports. If you have plenty of time, find an old piece of American iron, strip it down to parade rest and put it back together. When you are done you will have a nice lathe that you will be intimately familiar with all of it inner workings.
If you are very patient, you can find a quality American lathe that someone has already done all the work to for less than a good import machine.
You just have to figure out where your own personal priorities lie and go for it.
I started out with a brand new Smithy 1340 Granite and as a lathe it was capable of doing some very nice precision work right out of the box. I needed to make chips right then and there, and the smithy did exactly that.
I replaced the Smithy with a South Bend 13 that I had to do almost a complete restoration to before I could use it.With the price of the South Bend and restoration, it was cheaper than the Smithy and more capable.
I replaced the South Bend with the Monarch that is my avatar. The Monarch was bought as you see it, plug and play and very, very, (emphasis on very) well tooled for less than I could buy a new Grizzly G0709 gunsmith lathe. It was on Craigslist and I was in the right place at the right time.
If you are in a hurry and want to make chips from the git go, it's hard to beat some of the better quality imports. If you have plenty of time, find an old piece of American iron, strip it down to parade rest and put it back together. When you are done you will have a nice lathe that you will be intimately familiar with all of it inner workings.
If you are very patient, you can find a quality American lathe that someone has already done all the work to for less than a good import machine.
You just have to figure out where your own personal priorities lie and go for it.
Rmack898-thanks, With my rather limited use and lack of restoration knowledge the imports seem a better bet for me. Reading the asian sub forum here is an education. Like everything the diverse inputs and loyalties must be sorted.
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2013
- Messages
- 305
I used a 3-ton engine hoist to load, unload, and locate my lathe in my workshop. My lathe, a Delta Rockwell 11, is a bit smaller than what you're looking for, but the hoist handled mine fine. It weighs in at around 1,200lbs with cabinet. Don't know if I'd want a 5,000lb lathe swinging around on one though. You can also rent a small (5-ton) fork lift at just about any good tool rental for a pretty reasonable fee. Last time I checked it was around $35/day here in VA.
Your question about safety is a good one. When you're learning from an instructor in a school, or as an apprentice to a master, you get safety hammered into your head, but when you're learning on your own, some things you end up learning from experience. I'm sure glad I was working on a South Bend 9A with a 1/4hp motor when my shirt sleeve caught the rotating chuck. Ripped the sleeve and bruised and scratched my forearm, and stopped the lathe, but nothing serious. Would have been bad on a larger lathe. That little experience will ensure I will not make that mistake on the DR11 when I get the rebuild finished. As a neophyte hobby machinist, I see a lot of benefit, as far as safety, from learning on a smaller lathe. Can't wait to get my DR working, though. I would recommend looking up (google) some of the lathe accidents documented photographically on the Internet. It will certainly convince you of the need to pay attention.
I chose old American metal, simply because I love to use old tools. I love to take stuff that doesn't work and make it work again. I bought an ebay special for $720. I am closing in on $3000 and I haven't finished the rebuild (thread The stars have been in alignment for me this week. Just got my first lathe, a D/R 11X36, 25-100 ). I'll easily be at $4000 by the time I acquire all the tooling I hope to eventually have. If you go with an older machine, keep in mind parts availability. None of it is cheap, but at least for some makes, like South Bend, it is not terribly difficult to track down parts in good condition. For my DR, I'm not having a hard time finding parts, as much as finding parts in good enough condition to pay a premium price for. Every time I buy a used part, I have to determine whether it is enough of an improvement over the part I am replacing to be worth the price. More and more I'm finding the used parts available for sale are discards from other rebuilders.
On the other hand, I found a South Bend 9A with all the essential tooling for $500 that was pretty much plug and play, after a thorough cleaning. I used it to make parts for the DR rebuild.
I did a little research and learned that my DR11 ran about $1500 in 1958. I was told (haven't yet done the math) that in today's dollars, that makes it about a $15,000 machine. Not sure I entirely agree with that valuation, as I compare to what I see from Grizzly for that price, but in its day it was a quality gunsmithing lathe. What it really tells me is that older American-made machines are actually selling for pennies on the dollar in today's market. There is no argument from anyone I know that the metals and machining in the older US machines is of higher quality than those made in Asia. The old US machines are also much heavier. I am told the older machines made in Taiwan are a step above the rest of the Asian machines in the quality of steel in them. Another thing I have read is that literally all, the machines made in China are made in one factory. The only difference in them is that they vary in specs and details for each vendor, such as Grizzly or Harbor Freight. That doesn't necessarily speak to quality, but it does tell you something about the price differences between different makes nowadays. As for parts availability, don't count on being able to find parts for an Asian machine any easier than for a South Bend or Colchester. Once an Asian model is superceded, unless the part is still used in other machinery being made in the Chinese factory, it will likely be unavailable once stock has run out.
My vote goes to older American iron, but when I look at what I might have bought for about the same money from Grizzly, I sometimes doubt my decision. Still I don't think I could bring myself to choose a $4,000 Grizzly over a Monarch I could get for about the same money.
Your question about safety is a good one. When you're learning from an instructor in a school, or as an apprentice to a master, you get safety hammered into your head, but when you're learning on your own, some things you end up learning from experience. I'm sure glad I was working on a South Bend 9A with a 1/4hp motor when my shirt sleeve caught the rotating chuck. Ripped the sleeve and bruised and scratched my forearm, and stopped the lathe, but nothing serious. Would have been bad on a larger lathe. That little experience will ensure I will not make that mistake on the DR11 when I get the rebuild finished. As a neophyte hobby machinist, I see a lot of benefit, as far as safety, from learning on a smaller lathe. Can't wait to get my DR working, though. I would recommend looking up (google) some of the lathe accidents documented photographically on the Internet. It will certainly convince you of the need to pay attention.
I chose old American metal, simply because I love to use old tools. I love to take stuff that doesn't work and make it work again. I bought an ebay special for $720. I am closing in on $3000 and I haven't finished the rebuild (thread The stars have been in alignment for me this week. Just got my first lathe, a D/R 11X36, 25-100 ). I'll easily be at $4000 by the time I acquire all the tooling I hope to eventually have. If you go with an older machine, keep in mind parts availability. None of it is cheap, but at least for some makes, like South Bend, it is not terribly difficult to track down parts in good condition. For my DR, I'm not having a hard time finding parts, as much as finding parts in good enough condition to pay a premium price for. Every time I buy a used part, I have to determine whether it is enough of an improvement over the part I am replacing to be worth the price. More and more I'm finding the used parts available for sale are discards from other rebuilders.
On the other hand, I found a South Bend 9A with all the essential tooling for $500 that was pretty much plug and play, after a thorough cleaning. I used it to make parts for the DR rebuild.
I did a little research and learned that my DR11 ran about $1500 in 1958. I was told (haven't yet done the math) that in today's dollars, that makes it about a $15,000 machine. Not sure I entirely agree with that valuation, as I compare to what I see from Grizzly for that price, but in its day it was a quality gunsmithing lathe. What it really tells me is that older American-made machines are actually selling for pennies on the dollar in today's market. There is no argument from anyone I know that the metals and machining in the older US machines is of higher quality than those made in Asia. The old US machines are also much heavier. I am told the older machines made in Taiwan are a step above the rest of the Asian machines in the quality of steel in them. Another thing I have read is that literally all, the machines made in China are made in one factory. The only difference in them is that they vary in specs and details for each vendor, such as Grizzly or Harbor Freight. That doesn't necessarily speak to quality, but it does tell you something about the price differences between different makes nowadays. As for parts availability, don't count on being able to find parts for an Asian machine any easier than for a South Bend or Colchester. Once an Asian model is superceded, unless the part is still used in other machinery being made in the Chinese factory, it will likely be unavailable once stock has run out.
My vote goes to older American iron, but when I look at what I might have bought for about the same money from Grizzly, I sometimes doubt my decision. Still I don't think I could bring myself to choose a $4,000 Grizzly over a Monarch I could get for about the same money.
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2014
- Messages
- 146
ford vs hyundai
AR15 vs Kalashnikov
blonde vs brunette
in any case, go big or go home. including the blondes and brunettes.
AR15 vs Kalashnikov
blonde vs brunette
in any case, go big or go home. including the blondes and brunettes.
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2014
- Messages
- 349
thenrie-thanks, I'm old and cautious so that may help the safety issue, but no guarantee. It did take a while for me turn on the mill-drill with the gnarly 4-tooth face mill. Because I will not learn daily my progress will be slow-usually when a problem or modification arises. I just read up on "gap lathe" and how it works . It does seem I would be unhappy sooner or later with anything smaller than 13 or 14 and 1-1/2 spindle bore. Even though the machine will diss me every time I enter the workshop I will repeat "It's only a machine, It's only a machine.")
Thomas Paine-thanks. I have seen some small , but potent things, but in this case I do think bigger is better for me.
)Thomas Paine-thanks. I have seen some small , but potent things, but in this case I do think bigger is better for me.
Visenfile,
I can identify with you, my heart was pounding the first time I turned my lathe on.
It is healthy to respect any machine as they don't have a preference for who they eat.
Funny now that I think of it I have hurt myself more often with a Dremel than I have with a portable router!
Looking forward to following your progress.
Regards
I can identify with you, my heart was pounding the first time I turned my lathe on.
It is healthy to respect any machine as they don't have a preference for who they eat.
Funny now that I think of it I have hurt myself more often with a Dremel than I have with a portable router!
Looking forward to following your progress.
Regards