LMS Mini Lathe Feed Rate - Vary Gears?

Both Steve Aylor and Kwick Aronson sell slow feed gear sets for the 7x lathe. You can find them over at the 7x mini lathe group on Facebook.
Kwick Aronson's gears also are sold by LittleMachineShop. I've dealt with both of those guys and service was excellent. And the gears definitely work to give a better surface finish.
https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1137&category=

BTW, if you have a 7x lathe the greatest concentration of users is in the Facebook group. The old Yahoo group - now at https://groups.io/g/7x12MiniLathe is also a good resource.
Thanks, Vic! That may be the solution I was thinking of, just got it backwards.

Thanks also for the FB and io group suggestions: I'm now in the io group and have requested access to the FB one.

I'd still like to try the smaller gears with the stock 80T ones, but I'm having trouble finding gears that have a large enough hub to open it up for the Ø12mm shaft and 3mm keyway. I may have to try printing a couple, but will do a mock-up the see if the stock banjo will allow the tiny gears first.


Charlie
 
Fine feed gears If you have a 3d printer you can print them yourself. These are module 1 gears. I believe there's enough info on the LMS page to design them yourself. I have modeled gears in FreeCAD. Assuming you know the CAD program, the modeling of the gears is a simple and fast process. I did buy this gear set when they first came out. They do reduce the feed rate by 1/2. A stock mini-lathe has no way to adjust the feed rate, it is fixed. So you need a motor like Varmint Al did, or special gears, or an electronic lead screw.
Missed this reference to the LMS set as I was on my phone and didn't see that there was a link (an my eyes are getting as old as I am).
Thanks!!
 
This is the same approach I took for cutting 42mm (0.61 TPI) on my Logan.


I also made a spreadsheet but mine doesn't use macros; just formulas in columns. Do your spreadsheet macros generate gear pairs to achieve a desired pitch? Because mine lacks that ability and it was pretty time consuming working the problem from the other end, manually plugging in numbers over and over and over until I finally found something that was acceptable. If yours doesn't have that limitation then I need to look under its skirt. I would be looking at it right now if I wasn't posting from my phone.
excellent video.
Do you want to share the spreadsheet?
 
Missed this reference to the LMS set as I was on my phone and didn't see that there was a link (an my eyes are getting as old as I am).
Thanks!!
I haven't looked too closely at them but the Files section on the groups.io 7x12 forum has some STL files for gears.
 
@MaverickNH


This site charges for the manual. Do you have a pdf copy you could sent to me via private message? I don't want to pay just to see how the gears fit together.

Mean while I have made an attempt to add your file to my workbook. I had to make some assumptions. I do not know what your cross feed gears are and so do not know a cross feed rate. If you supply me with a table (or the manual) of feed values for gear settings I can usually figure this out. So I just assumed a number used in some other lathe models. I looked at the table of threads you supplied and assumed that the gears listed represented all of the gears that come with the lathe (and that you have). Secondly, I assumed the lathe does not have a separate "feed" bar so it cannot cut threads by feeding rather than by using the lead screw. In order to easily match the table with the gears I had to assume that the lead screw is 16TPI. If this is not correct and it is the more standard 8TPI of larger lathes then there must be a hidden 2x gear in the box somewhere. The best way to run the spread sheet is to allow any of your gears to be placed on any axle, so this assumes that the axles are all the same diameter etc. Because of the way the spread sheet is set up to be universal for a number of lathes it will compute cases where their might be the same gear size on two axles at the same time. You will just have to know that you do not have multiple gears of a size. Likewise without further knowledge it is impossible to know if a set of gears will actually fit together. The operator has to be smart this way. For example putting 80T gears on all of the A, B, C, D positions is most likely impossible. However, this would give you the same results as any single gear on all of the axles.

So I built the spread sheet and ran the macros for you. It is attached. You will find two unprotected tabs(sheets) AllTPI and SrchdTPI. The SrchdTPI provides a table of Imperial and Metric gear arrangements for the most standard threads and approximations to them. I set the approximations up so that you got at least one, but usually many, gear arrangements for the value being searched. I say the tabs are unprotected as they do not begin with the letters "uw" and so if you run the TPI generator macro then any tab that does not start with uw will be deleted so that a new AllTPI can be created cleanly. If you want to save these tabs just add the letters to be beginning of the tab name. However, if you late want to run the macros on the AllTPI list you will need to copy the saved tab contents into a tab/sheet by that name.... or just remove the uw from the one you protected.

Doing it this way the macro found 5329 possible gear arrangements, not counting any duplications. You may note that in the AllTPI list that some columns have letters in them like "S & T". You will find this twice, in columns S and T. The meaning of this is that you can put any gear in both of these axle positions and get the result. You just need to have two of any gear to do so.

You can also run the uwLMS4200_7x sheet manually. For example, click once at cell O30 you will find a pull down menu. Use the arrow to select one of the gear values listed and you will see that the results at various cells, E24-E28 for imperial threads and at X24-X28 for metric values. Of course some of these feed and x-feed entries will/may be meaningless or incorrect.

You will have to unzip the file. Then when it is opened in Excel you will need to enable the macros if your security is set that way. If you have never used macros you will need to enable or click on the Developer Tool bar entry at the top. If it does not show then you will have to enable it.

I suggest you open the AllTPI tab/sheet so that you can see it. Then run the macro called "HideAuto". This will hide some of the columns in the table/list/sheet which you do not use. There is also a Hide macro which lets you choose which columns you wish to hide.

By the way there were 6 gear arrangements to get to 80TPI. Of course some require multiple gears of the same value.

Let me know what you think. Also, I will be happy to try to answer any questions.

After you have looked at it and we have checked the x-feed rates out to our satisfaction I will prepare a final version and post it for everyone.

Dave L.
 

Attachments

  • TPI_ManyLathesRev1_LMS4200_7x DraftDraftDraft NB16_1346.ZIP
    2.5 MB · Views: 4
@MaverickNH



This site charges for the manual. Do you have a pdf copy you could sent to me via private message? I don't want to pay just to see how the gears fit together.
Available for free on LMS website under Support/User’s Guides:

4100 user’s manual - https://littlemachineshop.com/images/gallery/ug/4100 Mini Lathe Users Guide - DISCONTINUED.pdf

4200 user’s manual - https://littlemachineshop.com/images/gallery/ug/4200 Mini Lathe Users Guide - DISCONTINUED.pdf

Tom
 
Available for free on LMS website under Support/User’s Guides

Thanks Tom. It appears that the the 4200 link is only an advertising flyer, not a manual. The link to the 4100 indicates that it has metric lead screw so I am assuming that it is not the same as the 4200. However, I did look through it and did not see a threading chart nor a x-feed chart. The saddle looks pretty simple in the photo, so I am going to guess that these lathes do not have powered cross-feeds. So I will need to clean this up in the spread Excel workbook/sheet. Thanks for trying. If my assumptions are correct then the photo that @MaverickNH posted provides the TPI vs gears. This was what I used to make the draft Workbook.
 
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@MaverickNH

Can you confirm that the lead screw is 16TPI? Can you please confirm that there is no powered cross feed?

You can use the Hide macros to hide the columns that you do not use, like the x-feed numbers. There is a Hide macro that lets you choose all of the columns that you do not need to see. Using this make the AllTPI table look much cleaner and easier to follow. You might want to hide all of the columns except the TPI and the 1/TPI and the gear columns that you use.

Dave L.
 
I found it on the LittleMachineShop site. They indicated that the lead screw is 16TPI.

Also, it appears that I left a couple of gear values out of the work book. 21 and 57 were only in the metric table you supplied.

This is what I have for a list of gears: 20, 21, 35, 40, 45, 50, 55, 57, 60, 65, 80 I have little idea as to which of these values you might have duplicates or more. These extra ones will significantly increase the number of combinations in the AllTPI table! I am estimating that the number will be ~61K excluding duplicates. It will take a longer to generate the table. But these two will probably help, but not perfect, the accuracy of all the metric values.

Lastly, I am just curious as what the physical limitations might be. For example if you had 4 80T gears would they ever all fit on the lathe at one time? Sort of like @homebrewed mentioned for the OEM banjo:
the OEM banjo places additional limitations on gear combinations that can actually be used (due to fitment problems). That limitation is specific to this class of lathe. To be specific, the four gears are given as A, B, C and D. Any case where B > (C+D) is illegal because the gears will interfere with each other.
 
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