Kinda going off Chinese import stuff..

With respect to mcostello, it is as I would expect. The Indians, Chinese, Koreans make cheap stuff cheaper than Americans can. But they are also capable of making good quality stuff, just not with the disparity in price. My take is that when complaining about cheap stuff, I see no reason to attach a nationality to it. It is cheap stuff made poorly.
 
I would contrast the observation with the case of South Bend, and others, whose products, at the time, were made extremely cheaply, with every possible frill left out, and castings left with rough edges in places where it didn't count. But where it mattered, it was quality! The wartime conditions would account for the work ethic then, and the attitudes of the time. Arguably, this makes up the difference.

Trash is always cheap. Cheap is not always trash. I have a whole lot of Chinese stuff that is "reasonable to good" quality. I get it that the price difference disappears when the quality is high. Is it that there was just that market sector left open, which no western manufacturers wanted to fill?

I also do not think that steady progression through a series of developing nation suppliers is inevitable, nor even likely.
 
Shotgun said:
I believe Vietnam is next on the "emerging industry" list, and African countries are right behind them.
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I think India is next. Reason being we are seeing a lot of cast iron goods coming out of India. Fairly well established industry there for motorcycle engines, automobiles and such.


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mmcmdl said:
I've never seen Chinese machines in any shop I've worked in/with , for good reason . :) I'll take good condition American Iron over these kits any day of the week . JMO and your mileage may vary .
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I agree completely, but have to admit I did jump ship on my 1440 import lathe. I had many 6 and 10"swing used American made lathes that were great machines. The problem for me was I needed more swing, hence the import. Any American or high quality European import with a 14" swing was above my budget. That made the decision as to jumping ship. All in all after tweaking and modifying I am happy with what I have. The other machine was an impulse buy that I have made good use of and am happy I moved on was a Rong-fu Bench radial arm drill. It was almost new when I got it from a Dana Chassis plant in Pa. that unfortunately was shutting down for $173.00. That said, all else of what I own was made in America before the mass exodus of American company's to china
 
Cadillac said:
You can still buy a clausing or a monarch or a leblond. Many others I’m sure. Manual machines are not feasible at production Work, and CNC is pretty precise too.
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Yes, they can be found are out there at reasonable prices, but the cost of shipping would make the purchase depending on it's location twice the cost of the lathe. Along with the problem of securing reliable shipping is the fact that you are buying sight unseen. When I looked at some of the lathes within 100 miles of my location they were in poor to junk condition. But then again sometimes you can/could get lucky and score a good machine close by. Thank's.
 
sdelivery said:
A BIG part of the problem was when the end user i.e. the consumer decided they would get the two dollar Chinese pliers instead of the 20.00 made in USA...I heard it all around me for years....
"I only need it for this , so if it works one time for me" and "I don't care, I can buy ten for this price"
Many didn't realize that, slowly they were giving away jobs.
In some industries there can be enough support businesses (companies that provide things to keep the manufacturers manufacturing) and employees that a 500 job loss at the manufacturer can be another 50 to 500 at support businesses.
A World economy puts your American high paying jobs directly in competition with under developed back alley workers jobs. 20.00 per hour or 20.00 per day.
Which looks appealing to a business for profit?
Then you have the legal angle. Now that so much is dropped off unboxed in container load quanity and boxed here under a variety of labels, the ability to seek retribution from the manufacturer is about gone.
We hit a point in this country where you couldn't do anything with out the possibility of being sued.
Look at all the labels and little printed papers that come with these products...in short it says they can only be liable for the value of the product. So if that Chinese disc brake rotor fails and you get into a catastrophic accident they can only be sued for the 19.95 rotor you bought. The American manufacturers were being hammered with bs law suits, it became settle out of court it will be cheaper.
Now we need more insurance....who do you think is going to pay for that....the end user WHO ELSE?
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Sometimes my thoughts wander.
I’m reading through these posts, then my host mentions $20 per day. I think back to Henry Ford’s ridiculous $5 a day wage. He made a lot of corporate enemies on that move.
When these company managers report back to their CEO’s and the CEO reports to his stock holders, a long term vision is lost.
Quick profits to boost stock value seems to be the way of the world these days.

I don’t think hard work, a long term vision for your employer and a feeling of pride at the end of the day for what you accomplished will ever be popular again.
I’m not suggesting bringing back the sweat shops of the early 20th century when some of our machines were made.
There is a real difference between my 1960’s Delta band saw and the harbor freight copy.
When you look at the castings on my 1970’s Made in England lathe and the B&S surface grinder then compare the fit and finish on a modern Jet drill press or Grizzly Jointer. There is a significant difference.
Do they all do a good job? In my experience, yes.

So what’s my point? The world has changed and the old ways aren’t coming back. Maybe that’s a good thing? I’m not so sure.
 
Janderso said:
Sometimes my thoughts wander.
I’m reading through these posts, then my host mentions $20 per day. I think back to Henry Ford’s ridiculous $5 a day wage. He made a lot of corporate enemies on that move.
When these company managers report back to their CEO’s and the CEO reports to his stock holders, a long term vision is lost.
Quick profits to boost stock value seems to be the way of the world these days.

I don’t think hard work, a long term vision for your employer and a feeling of pride at the end of the day for what you accomplished will ever be popular again.
I’m not suggesting bringing back the sweat shops of the early 20th century when some of our machines were made.
There is a real difference between my 1960’s Delta band saw and the harbor freight copy.
When you look at the castings on my 1970’s Made in England lathe and the B&S surface grinder then compare the fit and finish on a modern Jet drill press or Grizzly Jointer. There is a significant difference.
Do they all do a good job? In my experience, yes.

So what’s my point? The world has changed and the old ways aren’t coming back. Maybe that’s a good thing? I’m not so sure.
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No, it's not. That's what got us here.
 
Charles scozzari said:
I agree completely, but...
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Not picking on you. However, being a fan of irony....

You weigh in on not buying china machines then list the ones you bought :)
I posted in the "What did you buy today thread" that I had recently bought a new Wahlstrom Float Lock drill vise. Now made by Eagle Rock Industries in Bath, Pennsylvania.
I could have bought two cheap China knock-offs for what I paid for it.
But...
I stuck to my principles and bought the good USA one instead.
 
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