Kinda going off Chinese import stuff..

I have to wonder how much the Internet, online buying, has factored into the Chinese import market. We all prefer to spend less money on something, all else being equal. Internet marketing removes the ability to hands on inspect something, and the impression of quality can be as much an artifact of photoshop as anything else.

Having worked with many foreign engineering graduate students, I have seen a lot of cultural differences. But that has little impact on quality. Nobody would continue to market low quality goods if they didn't sell.
 
The US Auto industry turned off a generation of potential customers with the turds they were cranking out in the 1970s and early 80s. Trucks excepted, 1/2 ton and larger is something they managed not to screw up. The small trucks were (and mostly still are) all rebadged imports, Mazda (Ford), Isuzu (Chevy) or Mitsubishi (Dodge).


You really can't blame China, you have to blame the people contracting the work. Contractors worldwide will only do what is in the contract, and nothing more than that. Writing a good contract and doing compliance checks for overseas manufacturing is an acquired skill, those with experience tend to do fairly well, those lacking experience or just trying to cut costs to the minimum, not so much. Seperate from the manufacture, many sellers of cheap import tools are sketchy at best, so buying from a reputable seller helps a lot, but adds to the price.
Hear! Hear!
Years ago I bought a DeWalt 9V battery drill. I specifically paid triple the price to get a DeWalt, because the last one I had lasted for 10yrs of my abuse. The battery died in 3 months. The replacement battery lasted about 6.

Whether is was Made in the USA (TM), or a sweat shop in China is beside the point. I paid extra for a good name, and got the shaft. My assumption (made without evidence) is that some MBA came in with a bright idea on how to save a dollar or two of manufacturing cost on each unit. I saw that happen firsthand while working at Appliance Park for GE in Louisville, KY.

I've now standardized all of my battery tools on Ryobi.
 
Yep, brand and company names are now a "well of good-will" to be harvested. A company will build a reputation for a solid product, and then sell inferior products under that name. Usually, the warning signs can be seen, when that company releases a "new premium line". It usually happens when they are about to (or, have just started), to degrade the quality of their well-reputed brand. I see this often in hand-held power tools.

Watch for when Ryobi starts a new "premium line". This will mark the moment they have cheapened the standard products they are making under the established Ryobi name. It will likely use a different battery, so you cannot use the new "improved battery design", with their legacy models.
 
Bad parts can be shipped from nearly every manufacturer. Some manufacturers have lower rates than others. What matters in the end, is there is a mechanism which can make the purchaser whole should a defective part be received. I am testing this at the moment. Believe I received a defective American made part. Found out about it yesterday. Attempting an exchange. Should it be successful, it will be good.
 
Bad parts can be shipped from nearly every manufacturer. Some manufacturers have lower rates than others. What matters in the end, is there is a mechanism which can make the purchaser whole should a defective part be received. I am testing this at the moment. Believe I received a defective American made part. Found out about it yesterday. Attempting an exchange. Should it be successful, it will be good.
Success! Got a bad saw arbor. McMaster is replacing it, no need to return defective part. Outstanding company.
 
The US Auto industry turned off a generation of potential customers with the turds they were cranking out in the 1970s and early 80s. Trucks excepted, 1/2 ton and larger is something they managed not to screw up. The small trucks were (and mostly still are) all rebadged imports, Mazda (Ford), Isuzu (Chevy) or Mitsubishi (Dodge).
Being more aware of UK/European product, I never knew the USA re-badged imports also meant a whole Ford, or a Chevy. What of a vehicle assembled in the USA? Might that be put together with some percentage of import parts? Maybe as much as 100%?

This begs the question, what consumer products in this league can we say are 100% USA, all the way from the casting foundry on up to the last screw? Does anyone in USA manufacture even the screws anymore?
 
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I was a project engineer at General Motors and worked quite a bit with Chinese manufacturers. My impression was they made every attempt to make parts to the drawing, but back in the day lacked the experience of problem solving issues.

An example was a problem at the GM Shanghai assembly plant around 20 years ago. They were in the process of shutting the plant down because the nuts with a captured free-spin washer that secured the drop links to the stabilizer bars were breaking. They didn't break on the initial torque rundown, but popped after 12 hours or less. Their yard was full of cars needing nuts replaced and they had no idea what to do or how to figure out what the problem was.

I got called in to their problem solving meetings. The problem sounded to me like something called hydrogen embrittlement in the captured washer. Fasteners are typically plated/coated and cleaned ahead of plating/coating. Typically an acid wash is used. However, if a steel washer is acid-washed (all acids contain hydrogen) before plating/coating, it needs to be "cooked" at ~400 F after plating to boil the hydrogen out of the steel. Otherwise, the hydrogen can migrate into the microstructure of the steel which can lead to fractures when the part is subsequently put under load. The failure surfaces within 24 hours; no crack after 24 hours under load, no problem.

I mentioned that they should look at their stock dates and see if there was another date that could be used. Their failure rate was over 25%. The failure happened to be what we called a binomial distribution; it's either okay or not okay. I don't have the chart handy, but there's a stats chart that gives the number of samples that need to be tested based on failure rate to prove within a confidence level if you have fixed the problem or not. I recall the number of samples needing to be around 12 for 95% confidence with the 25% failure rate.

Take 12 nuts from each of your manufacture dates and run the drop links down on stabilizer bars. Come back 24 hours later and see if any have cracked. If they have, quarantine that stock date. It's what we called "prequalifying material". I had to elaborate on that term with them. "Guys, if you have lug nuts that don't want to run down on the wheel studs, take the lug nuts off line and run them down on a loose knuckle (assuming you've proven the studs are okay). Prequalify the lug nuts before taking them to the line". To us in the USA who'd been doing this for years, it was "Problem Solving 101". To my Chinese colleagues who lacked the experience, it was rocket science. They were super-eager to learn, a number of their lead guys came to the USA to train with our statistical engineering group and get some reps under their belt. We'd occasionally get some of their product in our audit area to review, they did a very fine job putting their cars together.

I also had some experience with low-level Chinese vendors who cared about profit, not so much about quality. I had a problem with peel and stick emblems literally falling off the car. We did a wet-out test and the parts failed. Then came the arguments that I don't miss as I recently retired. They'd do the same wet-out test and have the parts fail, but still wanted us to use them. . . "Guys, would you expect your company to print badges for you with a few letters missing from your name and call that okay? Of course not. General Motors will not accept cars in the field with the name plate "B ick". We are selling a Buick, not a B ick".

Summarizing, the Chinese can do as good of work as anyone on the planet. They (and any other country) can put out crap too. Depends on what's important to you. We used the line, "cost, quality and timing; pick two". If you want it for really cheap/quickly, don't expect high quality.

I've learned the buy once, cry once lesson over the years, but still forget it on occasion. A lot depends on my project and the accuracy needed.

Bruce
Bruce, thanks for your insights on this. Honest experience is a lot more valuable than sweeping prejudice. As one of the key players in the migration of semiconductor technologies to Asia back in the 1980’s, my experiences are similar. As @vtcnc mentioned, China in particular is part-way through a migration from a rural agarian culture to a technology powerhouse. Part of this transition has required a cultural mindset shift from “this is good enough” to “this is excellence”.

Japan went through the same transition 40 years earlier. I’m old enough to remember when “made in Japan” meant the product was probably junk. Today, I won’t buy a car that isn’t made in Japan. Taiwan was next in the transition, and is now the largest, and the leading manufacturer of semiconductors in the world (TSMC). And look at what China’s Foxcon has been pumping out for Apple since 2007 (iPhone, etc.). Korea is in this mix, and India is next.

When it comes to the kind of metalworking equipment most of us on this forum use, the incentive to build to highest quality is not there - the consumers are fixated on price above all else, in spite of their continual grousing about crappy quality. I’ve had lengthy discussions with some of the importers of mills and lathes encouraging them to develop and offer a premium-priced line with higher quality components and QC to go with it, and the response is the same: “the market for that just doesn’t exist - price is king until you get to equipment costing $15K or more. Users would rather have a crappy DRO bundled into the machine than have the same costs applied to tighter tolerances, better materials, or an industrial paint job.”

Personally, I’m in the Stefan Gotteswinter camp. Much of this equipment should be regarded as “kits” with plenty of potential if you put in the time to tear them down and rebuild them to higher standards. That’s exactly what I have done with my Precision Matthews equipment made in Taiwan. Some marvel at the results, while still others jeer at me with total confusion about my ”insane” dedication to excellence.
 
Being more aware of UK/European product, I never knew the USA re-badged imports also meant a whole Ford, or a Chevy. What of a vehicle assembled in the USA. Might that be put together with some percentage of import parts? Maybe as much as 100%?

This begs the question, what consumer products in this league can we say are 100% USA, all the way from the casting foundry on up to the last screw? Does anyone in USA manufacture even the screws anymore?
Check out where I work. http://www.edlundco.com

There are some parts we source from Asia, but the vast majority of our components are sourced in the US or Made in Vermont.
 
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