In defense of the four-way lathe tool post

[marka12161]

I know this is a much discussed topic with, perhaps strong opinions, but I've recently changed my thinking on these and would like to share my thought process (for whatever that may be worth). Like many, when I first started using my lathe, I quickly got frustrated with the lantern tool post that came with the machine. The need to constantly set tool height when changing tools and lack of rigidity, particularly when parting, were my main sources of frustration. I then did a bit of study and quickly converged on an import multi-fix quick change tool post system as the solution for me. When I took delivery of the QCTP system, i was very happy with the build quality, rigidity and versatility of the system. I predominately use high speed tool bits with the occasional brazed carbide tool bit. I do not use carbide insert tooling. In order to better accomodate the various HSS tool bit blanks i use (5/16", 3/8" & 1/2") i made some simple tool holders (picture attached) from cold rolled bar stock and i was in business. I used this system successfuly for many years and really didn't give it a second thought.

However, after a bit of time, i found myself wanting more tool holders to accomodate the various tool bits (my multi-fix system came with three standard tool holders and a boring bar holder). I looked at pricing and at about $80.00. holder I paused to really think through this. After a bit of reflection, i realized that the thing that bugged me most about the QCTP system was not necessarily the lack of an adequate inventory of tool holders, but was the clutter all those tool holders caused when they were not on the machine. Getting more tool holders would just lead to more clutter. At about this same time, i bought a second, smaller lathe that came with an import piston type QCTP set. Again, more clutter.

So, after a bit of additional pondering, I decided to change both machines to four way tool posts. Both of which are Enco brand (3 1/2" & 4 1/2"), with 12 indexible positions. For my use, the main down side of the four way system is not the need for shims, rather, it is the need for seperate turning and facing tools required to avoid interference when facing by swigning the turning tool 30 deg. I got around this on the small lathe by grinding a suitable tool to avoid this intereference (picture attached) and on the large lathe by fabricating a tool holder that holds the HSS tool bit at an angle of 15 deg (pic attached). I'm very happy with this change as it has cleared up all kinds of clutter. I sold both QCTP systems which more than offset the cost of the four way tool posts. I hope this helps others who may be thinking about this.

 

[Nickm512]

I’ve been using the multifix system for years on my lathe and I don’t believe I would care to go back to any other type tool post system. I have used a four way and also the aloris style tool posts before multifix. I guess though I could see your point about clutter if you truly need that many different tools. In my particular case and experience I just don’t need that many holders. And when I need to switch a tool out on said holders it really only takes seconds.
Hey, to each their own. If the four way works good for your process then more power to you! Just my two cents. Nick


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[marka12161]

I’ve been using the multifix system for years on my lathe and I don’t believe I would care to go back to any other type tool post system. I have used a four way and also the aloris style tool posts before multifix. I guess though I could see your point about clutter if you truly need that many different tools. In my particular case and experience I just don’t need that many holders. And when I need to switch a tool out on said holders it really only takes seconds.
Hey, to each their own. If the four way works good for your process then more power to you! Just my two cents. Nick


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Definitely, to each his/her own. I failed to mention, the clutter was particularly annoying to me when the tools/holders are covered in cutting oil.

 

[wrat]

I know this is a much discussed topic with, perhaps strong opinions,

Dunno about it being strong, or even why it would be.
Just use what works for you at the price point you can justify.

 

[Nickm512]

Oh yes! Definitely I can see that point lol. My holders are filthy


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[CJ5Dave]

I really like the 4 way setup better than the Aloris type quick change tool holders. I think the 4 way is more rigid. The lack of height adjustment is what I dislike about the 4 way. And when you get past 4 tools you have to loosen setscrews, etc. to change to another tool. I wish there was a quick change 4 way turret tool post that would allow you to change out 4 tools at a time. There is a good thread from a month or so ago about ways to handle/store/access the quick change holders.

 

[Mini Cooper S]

The owner of the first shop that I worked in marketed a 4 sided tool post of his own design. That was long before I worked there and by the time I was there he only had a bunch of parts and the tooling to make more posts but was not actively marketing them any more. He came up with the idea of making the center post with a relatively steep taper that had V shaped splines on the taper every 15 degrees. The 4 sided block had the mating pocket. When you would loosen the crank on top of the tool post, the block rose up just enough so that the block could be rotated. It was an incredibly sturdy design but the really great part was threading, you set your threading tool flat against the chuck face then you would pivot the block 4 splines and your tool was perfectly set for threading.

He had these tool posts on all of the shops lathes. They made them in different sizes, even one small enough for my South Bend 9" lathe. Unfortunately I was never smart enough to ask if I could buy one for my lathe. The owner was a very nice man, he probably would have given me one!

Richard

 

[GrifterGuru]

Personal thoughts on the 4-way are this...

If you choose to use a 4 way, just acquire enough 4 ways to cover your most used tools. 4x 4 way Holders = 16 tools.

This was how it was done at one particular workshop I would visit regularly (Engineer my father knew for many years). When I asked why not use quick change system the answer I got was that it was faster to setup and leave 4 tools in a 4 way, than it was to use a QCTP with all the "clutter" of multi-holders for multi tools (as has been noted above). Also, it took only a matter of 30 seconds or less to change a 4 way courtesy of a ball-ended handle holding the 4 way in place, whilst also not expending vast sums on holders for each individual tool.

Basically, a money saving, non-cluttering solution to a perennial problem.

Not sure yet myself on preferred toolpost. I am running a QCTP for the time being since I have no shim stock. Already looking at the costs of the QCTP system for moving forwards and so far, it is looking prohibitive for the amount of cutting tools I have (Carbide and HSS). With that said, I can live with swapping tools across the holders I have as and when needed, then adjusting for centre-height.

 

[Dabbler]

I've been a big supporter of 4-way tool posts, used correctly (no shims)...

I've used and owned 4-way, American Rocker, and Aloris for all my lathes. I also own Dixon for my big lathe (in addition to the 3). I still keep going back to my 4-way on each, at least half of the time.

Both of which are Enco brand (3 1/2" & 4 1/2")

On my big lathe I have an Enco. Fine piece of kit.

I got around this on the small lathe by grinding a suitable tool

very nice. I found if you use a DCMT tool in the Centre cutting configuration, you get really good face turning - for those tha prefer carbide. the tool is held in the 'boring bar' configuration. (4-way users will know that that is)

I really like the 4 way setup better than the Aloris type quick change tool holders. I think the 4 way is more rigid.

That is my experience. I have AXA, BXA and CXA Aloris tool posts. 4 way is a lot more rigid (if made well).

4 sided tool post of his own design.

I really loce that idea! are there any more examples in the 3-4" range for sale (even in parts)???

that it was faster to setup and leave 4 tools in a 4 way

I leave a RH turning tool, a facing tool, a combo chamfering tool, and a parting tool in my 4-way. Never need to change out anything on most days.

****

Yes I do use the Aloris holders a lot also. That is mostly for the tooling I haven't fitted to the 4-way (yet). All my holders and tooling sit in a drawer right beside the lathe.

I cannot emphasize enough that to use a 4-way effectively you mill down the bottom of your tool to make your carbide or HSS bit be on centre by just putting the tool in and cranking down. Shims are a waste of time. It takes 15 minutes to fit a tool, and it is right forever.

 

[CJ5Dave]

I have been meaning to find an old Enco 4 way that is bigger than the one I have on loan now. I think it is a 3 1/2 and I have a 1/2 inch plate under it to get the height right. It is really not the right height with this. I think I need a 4 1/2 or 51/2 but these seem hard to find.