How to find good help in a production machine/toolmaker shop

I know of no-one in our area with a state approved/run machinist or tool and die apprenticeship these days . None of our local schools or colleges has shops anymore due to liability issues I guess . Sad . A lot of shops are just folding up and shutting doors . We lost Tool and Die Specialties last month because of no employees . My buddy owns Chesapeake Machine in Baltimore and is always advertising for help . Not sure where he is going to find it . :dunno:

It amazes me to follow Bid spotter to see how many places are closing everywhere .
 
The economics are pretty straightforward. If shops can't hire at their current compensation rates, they need to raise them. If they can't stay in business after raising their compensation to attract talent, then they will go out of business. Once enough of them go out of business the supply of that service will be reduced and the remainder will be able to stay in business at the higher compensation levels. With less supply, the price those businesses can get for their services will go up. That probably means shops that are in better shape in terms of management and cash flow will survive, the rest will die.
 
I went back to trade school in my late 30s, not for machining but for stationary engineering. And one thing that became clear, very quickly, was that the program, any program really, set you up to be an apprentice, not a full worker. And that is OK, as there is a lifetimes worth of learning in that trade, but a lot of the students and companies in the area expected you to come out as a fully trained and experienced worker, ready to go do any job. And that expectation needs to change. The same problem was happening on the union side too; kids came in and didn't know that they were going to have to do a whole lot of extra work for no pay.
 
Aaron David said:
I went back to trade school in my late 30s, not for machining but for stationary engineering. And one thing that became clear, very quickly, was that the program, any program really, set you up to be an apprentice, not a full worker. And that is OK, as there is a lifetimes worth of learning in that trade, but a lot of the students and companies in the area expected you to come out as a fully trained and experienced worker, ready to go do any job. And that expectation needs to change. The same problem was happening on the union side too; kids came in and didn't know that they were going to have to do a whole lot of extra work for no pay.
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It's the same for college education. I'm an engineer by trade, and you can't expect someone straight out of college to be able to come in and be fully able to do the job. We seem to have some in upper management who think you can turn a bunch of engineers straight out of college loose with projects in the 10s of millions of dollars and expect them to succeed. Luckily those are a minority.
 
The last 6 years of my working career I interviewed a number of candidates for open engineering positions in our department. All had at least a bachelor's degree and some even had master's degrees. It was explained to me by one of the former vice presidents that those holding a bachelor's degree had a well-rounded education with the necessary basics in their field of study. Those with a master's degree had a more advanced knowledge in their field of study. Those with a doctorate had an even more in-depth yet more narrowly defined knowledge in their field of study.

It was most interesting to interview those with bachelor's degrees. A great many of them thought they had arrived at the pinnacle of their field of study and deserved to be well compensated. Some even declared they had paid their dues and deserved a salary equal to or greater than seasoned veterans. A few went so far as to handing me a list of requirements the company must meet for them to consider taking the job. Those requirements sometimes included multiple weeks of vacation within the first year, sick leave beyond what was being offered to others in the department, guaranteed raises, private offices, and even guaranteed promotions.

I'm sure I disappointed more than one applicant. My response was always that they had paid the cover charge or entrance fee to get in the door. Dues were paid on an annual basis and were highly dependent on their job performance. The better the performance the more likely they were to see bonuses, raises, and promotions.
 
I haven't been involved in recruiting and most of the engineers I work with are folks with 10+ years of experience, so I can't say much about new hires now. I graduated with my Masters in 2000 and my expectation was that I would start at around the salary that the internet said was around the starting salary for my field, which was about what it wound up being. I will say my Masters gave me a much broader understanding of my field, but that may have been the particular project I worked on as well as being the TA for the senior design course for 4 semesters.
 
I think citing pay is over-simplifying. It doesn't matter how much you offer if there are no qualified candidates - which in fields like machining is quite likely. Part of this is because 30 years ago or so we (society) decided that anyone with a college degree was more valuable than "simple trades". Fast forward to today and you have a bunch of nitwits with degrees, including some who would have thrived in a vocational field. The only option, in such a case, is to try to find someone that's bright-eyed and bushy-tailed and be willing to train them. (Ignoring the sad state of how little is necessary to get a HS diploma these days...)

I'm also an engineer, but things were different, I guess, when I went to school. I remember having conversations with my classmates as we approached graduation around "Do you feel like an engineer? I don't feel like an engineer yet." I think we all (mostly) understood that we'd just earned our learner's permits. I definitely saw the flip-side in some of the new engineers that I worked with - those that thought they'd learned everything there was to learn while in school. I've only been an engineer for ~30 years and I'm semi-retired now, but I'm still learning...

GsT
 
Jim F said:
I started PT in Nov. 2021 as a general laborer.
I was made FT in Apr. 22, I have had my pay go up $4 ph in that time frame.
If you prove yourself, the owner notices.
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That's your experience at one place. Someone looking for a job won't know that. So if they are making lowball offers and promising raises later, I would certainly be skeptical of that. It puts all the risk on the applicant. If the job market is tight, why take the the lowball offer hoping for something better later when you can just take a better offer right now?
 
I work in a production type evironment . The company hires anyone willing to walk thru the door . No experience , no mechanical abilities . No training from the company . Most have their smart phones going 8-12 hrs while at work . Company policy states phones are for emergencies only . LMAO , they are well aware of what goes on and nothing , NOTHING is ever said to these employees . They walk away from the lines , crash them , walk out the door , take a long break when the line goes down etc etc . Management doesn't seem to give 2 $hits about it . :rolleyes: We've lost more than a few great employees because of the situation and I can't blame them one bit .
 
A story on one of our TV stations (Minneapolis) the other day talked about the "trades" and how schools in the area were expanding and offering more programs. I was impressed that there are many kids out there that are interested in these types of schools.

I always find these threads interesting and yet full of hypocrisy. "I never made $25/hr, even after being there 'x' years." And yet... "Did you see the price of that house down the street!? $300k for THAT? They must be crazy."
 
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