Help me visualize where to remove material to flatten?

Glue a piece of sand paper to the piece of glass with some contact cement. Use a sharpie to paint the bottom edge of the tube. Run the bottom edge over the flat piece of sand paper. The places where the ink has rubbed off will be the high spots that need to be removed. Keep on applying ink, running the bottom over the sand paper then removing material from the high spots until it is flat enough.
 
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Yeah if it were me, and this was just for no reason other than to make it sit flat, I’d be making adjustments with a flap wheel on a grinder. Grind, see if it rocks, grind see if it rocks, grind…hey there we go. It sits flat. Moving on…. Lol
 
Saw a comment dissing a sheet of glass - yeah not that ideal but if it's thick enough it's way better than a bench! Seriously, a quality thick piece of glass is not a bad choice depending on what else is available. A granite counter top will also do. Visit a countertop shop and you can pick up sink cut-outs on the cheap side.

Neither option is high precision but will work well enough over small distances / areas

(and forgot to add - buy an assortment of plastic shim stock. It's a little pricey but I'm still working my way through a $50-ish purchase that's 10 years old. If I ever buy another pack I'll have to decide who to leave it to in my will. It is immensely useful for making comparative measurements. I keep a multi-day pill container with little snips marked by thickness.)
Kinda off topic and obviously it wouldn't be grade 00 but just how flat do you reckon a granite worktop sink cutout from a reputable kitchen worktop manufacturer would be?

I wonder if anybody has measured such a cutout with a proper reference surface plate as comparison?

Would such a bit of granite be good enough for use as a surface plate when only looking for reliable flatness measurements where one's accuracy requirement are around, or a little looser than, a thou accuracy over smallish distances (say 12"/300mm)?

I suspect a lot of hobbyists use thou/0.01mm DTIs on smallish work pieces. I know actual 300x200mm granite surface plates are pretty cheap but there's nothing cheaper than free so using a granite countertop sink cutout that was free might be worth a punt for some generally.
 
You know I’m about as tight with my $$ as they come, but I got early on without something reliable you’re just mucking about. And that’s fine and I mean it. You can learn a lot that way. What I learned sketchy produces sketchy. And if you’re looking for a learning experience maybe there is something there but I just got frustrated.

I picked up old Starrett and B&S surface gauges out of antique stores and checking them they were worn u shaped on the bottoms. I have no idea how you could do that unless they were using them on a cement floor or something. So I proceeded to make them flat again. I had a cheap 9x12 plate from Shars. From Oxtools I got the tip of Norton sticky back sand paper and stuck it to the plate and started in. Learned right away it is very tough to deal with the friction during the stroke as the leading edge wants to dig in taking a bigger bite. No matter that I was carefully pushing as close to the surface as possible and learned it’s easy to make it worse, not better. I was finally able to get them back to usable not perfect condition. Getting full contact to within a 1/16” to the edge and even got a mirror finish with a lapping plate. If I was shooting for perfect I’d probably still be out there.
 
You know I’m about as tight with my $$ as they come, but I got early on without something reliable you’re just mucking about. And that’s fine and I mean it. You can learn a lot that way. What I learned sketchy produces sketchy. And if you’re looking for a learning experience maybe there is something there but I just got frustrated.

I picked up old Starrett and B&S surface gauges out of antique stores and checking them they were worn u shaped on the bottoms. I have no idea how you could do that unless they were using them on a cement floor or something. So I proceeded to make them flat again. I had a cheap 9x12 plate from Shars. From Oxtools I got the tip of Norton sticky back sand paper and stuck it to the plate and started in. Learned right away it is very tough to deal with the friction during the stroke as the leading edge wants to dig in taking a bigger bite. No matter that I was carefully pushing as close to the surface as possible and learned it’s easy to make it worse, not better. I was finally able to get them back to usable not perfect condition. Getting full contact to within a 1/16” to the edge and even got a mirror finish with a lapping plate. If I was shooting for perfect I’d probably still be out there.
I can't disagree with what you've said but if it were to turn out that over say, 400mm x 400mm of a granite offcut, the flatness was acceptable for typical hobbyist , that might be £100 saved.

As it is, do we have reliable source regarding how flat a typical offcut would be? I don't know of one.

That would tell us if it would be worth the petrol driving to the kitchen worktop manufacturer's
 
As it is, do we have reliable source regarding how flat a typical offcut would be? I don't know of one.
To my mind we’re right back to the bottom line, ”reliable source”. And what is “typical” in an industry that is only worried about gloss not flatness. I guess if you have a good ”reliable “ straight edge you could lay it across the drop and gauge it with a feeler gauge. Please let us know what you find.
 
Something in the back of my mind is saying one of our members did or tried to do a comparison study on a kitchen counter granite. It was a while ago though — maybe five to ten years — and I’m not sure I could find it. Regardless, to my thinking it’s not just the flatness that’s the problem it’s that there is no consistency in that product so you don’t ever know “am I getting a flat one or a lumpy one…”. A proper surface plate, even one of the lower priced import or shop grade ones, while it may not be ground to the last possible Nth degree it will be more consistent within that range.
 
Please don't misinterpret my comments, regarding countertop cutoffs/cutouts. If you have the money and the perfect flatness REALLY matters then buy a certified, inspected new surface plate or a used one that comes from a reliable source with a recent inspection. After that the assurance of flatness goes down hill, and there are no guarantees on used surplus plates. But it probably doesn't matter for the vast majority of us and any used surface plate will do.

Granite slabs are mass produced and surfaced at factories with machines that are going to produce a pretty locally-flat generated surface.

Check out this video.

At a countertop shop, they will have a bunch of handheld grinders and polishers used cleanup and fix-up ie. finish countertops for installing. If the chunk you get has been touched by a hand held tool, then yeah it's potentially going to have issues. A sink opening from a factory slab that has simply been cut out is likely to be pretty good and possibly free. (ask for the cutouts if you buy a countertop for your house).

I have a cast iron bench plate that was given to me - free. I consider it the "reference" flat surface for my shop. It's maybe 12" X 16". I've checked for rocking against my 123 blocks and the longest precision straight edge that I have and numerous squares. By no means a conclusive test but it's as flat as the tools I have to work with.

I use my table saw top with abrasive paper on top to lap things and sharpen edges of chisels. For lapping, I check the pieces against each other and the bench plate.

Regarding the original posters question, if you can verify that tube sides are flat and parallel (don't rock on a flat surface and indicate the same height) you can then check the ends against other tube ends for squareness. A little tricky and time consuming but possible.

For what it's worth, you don't need something flat to make something flat. Check out the by-hand glass grinding and polishing of optical flats.

Fundamentally, there are only 2 surfaces that will remain in full contact when rubbed against each other, a plane and sphere. And a plane is just a sphere with in infinite radius. If you grind two pieces of glass against each other you get a concave and convex spherical surface with a very large radius. If you add a third piece and rotate through them, they will work towards flat because convex on convex will wear in the middle, concave on concave will wear on the edges. If you have good contact on the whole surface, switch one out and continue. Keep doing this carefully until you can't tell the difference and you are done!

For glass, you polish the glass when it flat enough and then check the interference lines (from monochromatic light if possible) and continue to polish for flatness - trying to get all the interference lines straight not curved. Because you have 3 comparisons you can use simple algebra to find the difference between any two.

For metal, you could probably use scraping techniques until all 3 pieces indicate even wear / contact.

(sorry, way TMI - I get that way)
 
To my mind we’re right back to the bottom line, ”reliable source”. And what is “typical” in an industry that is only worried about gloss not flatness. I guess if you have a good ”reliable “ straight edge you could lay it across the drop and gauge it with a feeler gauge. Please let us know what you find.
Just send your cut off to an inspection shop and see what the cert that comes back says! :p

It would be fun to see the reaction when the open the box.

Checking with a good straight edge is good but won't easily detect twist end to end. It works for concave / convex over the full surface.
 
To my mind we’re right back to the bottom line, ”reliable source”. And what is “typical” in an industry that is only worried about gloss not flatness. I guess if you have a good ”reliable “ straight edge you could lay it across the drop and gauge it with a feeler gauge. Please let us know what you find.
You're assuming I have a kitchen countertop cutoff or know where to get one. :D

My kitchen counters are some kind of cheap but hard-wearing dark wood looking formica stuff; looks nice but never been near a tree! :D

I was just thinking aloud really. I already one of these: https://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog...TABLE--300MM-X-200MM-X-60MM-9190.html#SID=924

Only little and it's no Mitutoyo but it seems effective enough for me so far.
 
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