Help me spend my future budget! Help a newbie out!!

GA said:
Hi, and welcome to Hobby Machinist forum... I think you will find lots of friendly folks here who will listen and suggest things.

I came to this forum in early July... I was at a similar place to you... albeit the machining goals were different.
I fiddle with and fly EAB aircraft (think barnstormers... LOL), as well as making non-aviation related custom parts for folks.

I started with a desire for a PM1127 and a PM25 (well, the preceding mill to the PM25... Matt improved the product, it is now called the 25). Then after a lot of study... decided to upgrade to a PM932/PDF (a nicer version of a PM45). Then decided to upgrade to a 1236 lathe. This kinda fit my budget... until I got to looking at the machines in person (local folks)... First I bit the bullet and upgraded to the 1340GT lathe... then after a few weeks of indecision upgraded to the PM935TS mill. Both of these are Taiwanese made machines, the quality is a HUGE step up.
IMO these three combinations are good groups:
1127 and 25
1236 and 45/932
1340GT and 935TS/TV
Depending on whether your needs are mill or lathe intensive... might mix and match.

From someone that has studied this for close to 4 months...
Your budget may be a little soft... :)
With around $10K:
You can get the 1127/25 with lots of tooling
You can get the 1236/45-932 with a little tooling
Or you cannot get the 1340/935 for even more than your budget with no tooling

Now lets talk a little about machine size: The reason a machine tool is massive and heavy is something called chatter.
The operation of cutting metal is in reality somewhere between chiseling and scraping... precisely controlled gouging might be a sloppy way to invision it. The more DOC (depth of cut) one takes, the more the tool tends to want to vibrate (or chatter). Now cast iron is really good at absorbing that chatter, so it does not result in a wavy and rough finish of the cut.
The little machines will take little cuts, but chatter with larger cuts.
The middle machines will offer some more strength while taking deeper cuts
The Taiwanese pair noted above, will take a little more DOC, yet do it with more precision... and they are just built to tighter standards. Note the 1340GT G=gunsmithing, T=Taiwanese

While we are talking about precision and accuracy: Something to understand: The ability to make a precision part (hold tight tolerances) is as much--if not more--the operator... than the machine... and this takes lots of time to learn.
However a well made and well maintained machine helps.

If it were me... given your list of things you want to do...
I would look seriously at the 1236/45-932 (with the PDF feature)... and figure on spending more as you need specific tooling.
You can start off with not a lot of tooling (you will need measuring tools and basic cutting tools)... then add things (rotary table) as you need them.
BTW: Amazon has lots of stuff, and it is relatively competitive (not machines, tooling). Get a Prime account... freight is free.

Here is a thought: You can always get more tooling... however it is hard to get more machine without upgrading... :)

And here is something to consider: QUALITY!
Matt's PrecisionMatthews machines are subtly a cut above... little details which become quite noticeable if they are missing. And Matt is a wonderful guy to work with. If it were me, I would not let flashy deals get my attention... one usually gets what they pay for... regardless of the fluff.

Hope all this helps, please feel free to ask all the questions you want... someone will do their best to answer them.
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The Taiwenese tools are something i looked at and they are nice. I cant afford to buy both. Maybe one but not both. You have offered some great points to reflect on and I have been thinking the PM932 and PM1236 combo pretty hard. I hope he has the 1440LB on sale next year. That is a pretty sweet deal on that lathe atm.
 
markknx said:
If you can when you get ready to buy hold a bit of your budget back so once you are set up and realize you will need this or that you still have the funds.Consider HSS instead of Carbide in the begining, cheaper more flex able. Also leave room for books. I found reading up on basic machining help me understand what feature, and tools were needed, what could be built at home, and what could wait. Don't be fraid to check e-bay and creigs list for deals. I started with just a lathe and later added a mill. slowly have been adding thing ever since. Mark
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BOOKS! I actually asked for machinist books last year for Christmas from family and came up dry. I am definitely going to try that again this year!
 
Ahh the sweet smell of budget creep. You might want to consider ordering the lathe or mill now and the other later.
 
There is no reason one cant out fit a shop very very very well for 10k. My shops doing pretty good on far less. IMO if you can only get one machine with the size I would buy a bigger mill. I have a 2000lb mill and a 300lb lathe and they make parts together all the time. They dont even fight with each other when working they get along so well ahahahahaha. Granted I really want a lathe that can pull off .1 or more for a DOC, my little machine works just fine.

I say bigger mill cause I seem to have more stock to remove on a mill. Pockets, slots, angles, cut offs all on the mill.

I dont know your situation or how hard or easy you can scrounge up funds. I know a roto table will set you back a few hundred to north of a 1000 depending on size. That can take alot of guys months to buy. Yes you can tool up as you go but if it will take you 2yrs to scrap up the tools to make a part your machines are paper weights....

If you will be able to sneak in tooling after with no issues, by all means buy the biggest machines you can get in the budget. But if not then buy tooling. I would rather have half the lathe and twice the tooling then twice the lathe and 1 hss bit and no way to sharpen it... You seem to feel you got 10k and then the wife is putting the foot down. If so get your blessing in while you can

Although if I had 10k I would buy a pm45cnc and just watch it run till I could afford a end mill ahahahaha
 
Sorry EarlK I do not have any PM machines. Im still in the building and tooling stage myself.
I have a 1/5 Bridgport clone ( millrite) and dont think I could ever down grade to a benchtop unit. I would definantly get a knee mill.
If I had to do it all over again I would have bought the 9x20 new, as the machine I got has no tailstock, 4 jaw chuck, steady rest, follower, or a reversable 3 jaw. None the less I have enjoyed it greatly.

Jake Parker
 
You mentioned the small knee mill PM836 in relation to the 932. If you are at all contemplating between the bench mill and a knee mill, I highly recommend getting the knee mill. That was one of my two biggest concerns when purchasing machines this past year. I was used to a BP clone at work and was struggling with going to a benchtop style. I am not bashing benchtop mills/drills but after working with a vertical knee mill I thought even though it was a step up from my Smithy at my home shop, it wouldn't be as nice as the knee that I get to use at work.

Hands down best decision I made. It is awesome to have nicer equipment at my home shop than we have at work.

If you even contemplating the PM836, you may want to get with either Matt @ QMT or Ray C. here on the forum as they have a few of them left that they have discounted quite heavily. They will have tilt but not nod which is the same as the benchtop mills you are looking at but differ from a traditional Bridgeport head. If memory serves with what they have the 836 discounted to it was something like only about $1400.00 difference between the 836 knee mill and the 932PDF becnhtop. Might definitely be something to consider but at those prices they may not have them for long as I don't think Matt will be ordering any of the 836's in the future.
 
Earlkonig said:
The Taiwenese tools are something i looked at and they are nice. I cant afford to buy both. Maybe one but not both. You have offered some great points to reflect on and I have been thinking the PM932 and PM1236 combo pretty hard. I hope he has the 1440LB on sale next year. That is a pretty sweet deal on that lathe atm.
Click to expand...

That is a good combo... :allgood:

That pair have the ability to hog off metal at a fair rate given their size and price. :)

Some other folks mentioned books... good idea! There are endless little details of setting up things, cut angles, grinding tools, feed/speed/DOC amounts, ways to accomplish the task properly (lots of ways to do it, which way gives the results you want)... etc... which take time to learn.
Choosing to read up on it for months before the machines arrive would be helpful IMO.
And then there is reading around here at Hobby Machinist... I have learned a bunch here.

Welcome to machining... sounds like you will enjoy it!

GA
 
The Henderson library has some books (limited) about tool grinding and sharpening.

Jake Parker
 
Just scanned the Quality Machine Tools website and it appears the PM-45 has been discontinued. The only listed option for a large benchtop mill is the PM-932. Still not a bad option as the PM-932 has a few desirable features that were not available on the PM-45.

Tom S
 
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