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G0602 Compound Problems. Thoughts, Ideas?

Discussion in 'GRIZZLY INDUSTRIAL INC.' started by Old Squier, Jan 1, 2017.

  1. Old Squier

    Old Squier United States Active Member Active Member

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    Dean,

    Take a look at the Precision Matthews 12x36 lathe. It's a terrific machine. You can also connect here with "RayC". He's the man to talk to about all things PM. Also, when you call PM at Quality Machine Tools, ask for Matt. He's the owner and a hell of a good guy, in addition to being a supporter of this site and a regular here too.

    Cheers,

    Squier

    Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk
     
  2. Dean Segovis

    Dean Segovis Iron Registered Member

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    Hey Squier,

    I arrived at the PM1030V after MUCH research yesterday. Looks like a great machine and it's within my budget. Variable speed, power cross feed, right and left hand threading, 4 way quick change tool post and more.
    More info here: http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM1030.html. I'll call Matt today and inquire. Thanks!
     
  3. Dean Segovis

    Dean Segovis Iron Registered Member

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    Just ordered the PM1030V. $2098 shipped!
     
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  4. mmprestine

    mmprestine United States Active Member Active Member

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    Strange issues, I have had a G0602 for years and it is a wonderfull little lathe. Does all that I have asked of it and cannot image how you are having such problems with yours.
     
  5. Dean Segovis

    Dean Segovis Iron Registered Member

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    I've noticed that Grizzly's machines are very inconsistent. In the past week I've been reading tons of posts and reviews on several machines. Some folks have no problems with a particular model, then other people have many problems with the same model. I think it's due to the lack of consistent quality control procedures at the Chinese factories that produce them.
     
  6. Greebles

    Greebles United States Active Member Active Member

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    This is true for all import machines including those sold by PM. I have a G0752 (G0602 w/ VFD) and have had zero issues. I also have a PM-727M which I had to have completely replaced. What matters is the level of support you can expect from a given seller. Matt at PM does an excellent job of providing customer service on his machines. He replaced my defective PM-727M at zero cost to me. It only cost me time and frustration.

    -Denzil
     
  7. Old Squier

    Old Squier United States Active Member Active Member

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    Dean,

    I hope you love your 1030! I have the 1340, but I need a smaller, second lathe. Think I just might ditch the little 1022 Grizzly and join you in ordering a PM 1030.

    Have fun brother!

    Squier

    Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma
     
  8. Old Squier

    Old Squier United States Active Member Active Member

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    Yeah, mmprestine, My G0602 has been horrendous. It's still in warranty (until 03-26-17) and I'm seriously thinking about trying to send it back for a refund. Figured out today that the Swivel Base #202 on both the original part and a replacement are improperly machined - both sinificantly off. The tech told me he sees this a lot! Not good. Also figured out today that the protractor is off by about 3mm. Nice huh? I know many people have had great luck with Grizzly machines, I'm just not one of them. They are good about sending warranty parts, so that's something I guess. You know I think it says something when my PM 1340 has a 5 Year Warranty. That's 4 Years longer than Grizzly. I believe our friend Dean, who just ordered the PM 1030V will get a 3 Year warranty. The only difference with mine being that mine is made in Taiwan. Matt at PM is a super guy and his team really do a fine job with their customer service. Anyway, I'm really glad your lathe is working out for you!

    Best regards,

    Squier

    Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma
     
  9. entityunknown

    entityunknown United States Active Member Active Member

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    I found that if you setup the gibs correctly on the Grizzly (and any machine that uses gibs), the whole unit is very stable. It came pretty well decent but if you want absolute precision, you need to make a super precise tuning effort. Grizzly seemed to skimp where it was reasonable but not where it was important and with a mini lathe, well it's a mini lathe.

    A new Grizzly also doesn't cost anywhere near a new one of any of the "preferred" brands, and they are very upgradeable while sold in a wide variety so you can focus your money where you need it. If you happen to have a big bad arse lathe, well of course you should probably keep it, if you're gonna use it and if you've got the space.

    It's not like most people are helping out the American manufacturing either since most people are not rich enough to purchase a brand new US made unit and likely rarely buy brand new replacement parts directly from those American Manufacturers (because they're too expensive). So without paying them directly, you're just simply giving an American person selling a used machine some money or you're paying a few people that were involved in the final assembly, checks, shipping, and customer service that sold you that new Asian machine. Now if you bought a brand new US made machine, then bravo to you, thanks for keeping the US MFG alive and some may envy your cash flow.

    You also have precision machined ways and all that with the Asian models but with a used machine of any type, it'll take some time to verify if you do or not. How well did the previous owner(s) handle the machine too and exactly how good of a machinist were they? Hand fixing all that can take a lot of time and depending on your skill level, you may make things worse. There is also usually a major weight difference depending on the class lathe you buy since the US doesn't really make mini lathes.

    Bolting down the mini lathe seems key as well. Makes sense since the reason big lathes are so big is because they need to be heavy/solid otherwise you get chatter plus it's for industrial purposes so it holds industrial sized objects. If any lathe/rotational cutting tool has any wobble at it's base, you're gonna hate your results if you want them to be professional quality.

    It all depends on your needs, space, money, skill, opportunity, and time. The truth is any good machinist can turn out solid product on any machine as long as it's solid with the proper tool and the part fits. I also chose to put my big money into a big mill while I've got a light investment in my mini lathe but that's what made sense for me ;)
     
  10. HBilly1022

    HBilly1022 Active Member Active Member

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    I've got a King 1022ML, which is the Canadian version of the G0602. Parts are interchangeable and it's made in the same factory as the Grizzly. This has been confirmed by King Canada. I have also had a lot of problems with this lathe including the swivel base. I replaced that part twice before I got one that was machined close to enough to work pretty good. On the first one, one of the dovetails was machined with a longitudinal taper from one end to the other. Took me a while to figure out why it was impossible to adjust the gibs to get them to work through the whole travel. Then one of the gibs had casting flaws in it and got that replaced. One of the swivel bases also had the dovetail machined too low and as a result the gib was riding high on it and because of the location of the adjusting screws the gib would tilt up and only ride along the top edge of the dovetail. Lots more issue too. But after a year with it I think I have resolved most of the issues. It still is not sturdy enough to do any parting but I know there is a fix for that. One of the reasons I kept mine was because there is a big following of this lathe and lots of information available on the web, for fixes and upgrades. Also Grizzly and King stock parts for them. As one owner stated these lathes are "a work in progress".

    I can also see that some owners would have good results with them. When I was working through the first issues with my lathe, the dealer allowed me to swap parts from another lathe that was delivered but got damaged in transit. That damaged lathe had none of the issues my lathe had. So it would appear decent ones can be had. Just not by me.
     
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  11. xman_charl

    xman_charl Active User Active Member

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    My feed lever will drag, G0602.

    Was using the cross feed, noticed this.

    Now hold it up by hand, when using the cross feed, no more drag, feed screw.

    Will repair this someday.

    Oh, did I mention the spinning drill chuck in the tail stock?

    Have several chuck mounted to a mt3, both will spin with heady drilling, 1/2 drill or larger.

    This spinning has been fixed.

    Charl
     
  12. Old Squier

    Old Squier United States Active Member Active Member

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    Hi Entity. You make some good observations - thanks for your contributions to this thread!

    You know, I'll admit that I hate this machine. I bought it to turn briar wood blocks that I use to make tobacco pipes. I've never tried to turn metal with it. I have a Precision Matthews 1340GT that I use for gunsmithing work. It's a very nice Taiwanese lathe. My real passion, however, lies in the really great European machine tools like Aciera, Deckel, Hembrug, and the like. I'm sort of re-arranging and enlarging my shop to work on machines of this class and I'll be getting away from gunsmithing to do this full-time. I'm even going to try my hand at importing used machines from Europe. Ambitious? Yeah, I guess it is. Still, I think I can do it. I say all the time that I'm a terrible mechanic. Well, that's not really true. Actually, I'm pretty good. At least I'm good when I'm working on a good machine. I think that's because it is a true pleasure to work on an Aciera, for example. Those machines are exquisitely designed and made. No corners are cut, period. In my book, they almost rise to the level of art. Conversely, my little Grizzly lathe is junk - pure and simple. Every time I look at it, it pisses me off. Now, I fully appreciate that some of them are better than others. I know there are satisfied owners who get good results from them. I am very happy for these folks and I am NOT disparaging their machines. It's just that I wasn't so lucky. Mine was made with such incompetence and indifference it should be destroyed.

    I spent my entire career giving everything in me to my craft. I do not mind saying that I believe my boss and I were the best gunsmiths in the state. It was my life! The quality of my work meant everything to me. To think that the people who built my little machine just didn't give a damn makes me sick. I cannot abide men like that.

    I know these little machines fill a niche. I know I am a little crazy when it comes to this subject. I guess I'll never be able to abide sloth and incompetence. If I live to be a hundred years old, I shall never understand how a man can be so unconcerned with the quality of his work as the men in China seem to be. Maybe it's not really about them, but profiteering on the part of their employers. Who knows. I just hope they will improve and stop off-loading their crappy products on this country. Hope springs eternal.

    Thanks again for your remarks.

    Squire



    Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma
     
  13. Old Squier

    Old Squier United States Active Member Active Member

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    Sorry to hear about your problems brother. I wish I could say I was shocked by all of your troubles, but I'm not.

    Best of luck to ya!

    Squire

    Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma
     
  14. Old Squier

    Old Squier United States Active Member Active Member

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    Same problems. It's a hell of a note that we are obliged to turn these machines into functional tools ourselves. It's a cinch the Chinese aren't going to do it. Neither is good ol Grizzly.

    Squire

    Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma
     
  15. Old Squier

    Old Squier United States Active Member Active Member

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    I should have said, same problems as HBilly1022! My bad.

    Squire

    Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma
     
  16. Greebles

    Greebles United States Active Member Active Member

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    The quality issue with Asian machines is 100% based on costs / profit per machine. There are only two ways to cut their cost per machine, lower-quality materials and labor cost. Generally labor cost is the biggest expense (even in Asia) so they do not hire skilled or trained workers. There workers are pushed to work as fast as they can which means quality is not a consideration and mistakes are pushed through in the hopes no one will notice. Workers that do become proficient and skilled eventually leave to find higher pay. This is exactly how most business are run nowadays, whether it is in Asia or stateside. The only difference is that in many other countries and cultures quality is not valued and thus not pursued.

    -Denzil
     
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  17. Old Squier

    Old Squier United States Active Member Active Member

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    Yeah, you hit the nail on the head. It's too dammed bad too. All those employees who never have a chance to experience the feeling that comes with a job done well.

    Squire

    Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma
     
  18. HBilly1022

    HBilly1022 Active Member Active Member

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    I think one of the issues is that the manufacturer and dealers of these machines are fully aware of the quality control issues and choose to accept it, for whatever reason and I'm sure it is mostly based on profitability. The other disturbing issue is that the consumer is being forced, or is slowly growing to accept this as the new normal. After purchasing my first lathe, I was told I shouldn't expect to get a quality machine from Asia and certainly not at these prices, however in the warranty section of the owners manual for my lathe, it states: " (distributor)... makes every effort to ensure that this product meets high quality and durability standards." So much for truth in advertising. If I was told to expect problems with the lathe and that may require some effort on my part to resolve, would I have still bought the lathe? Probably, because I really wanted one and I have this strange belief that I can fix just about anything. But I think many people would not buy one if they were told that. Knowing there are possible quality issues, in advance, would allow the buyer to make an informed decision before buying one.

    For those that got a good one, I am happy for you. Also wish I was one of the fortunate ones. For those of us that end up with a less than stellar machine our options are;

    1) return it to the repair center at our cost and this could be cost prohibitive. I think companies relay on this to some degree, knowing that the consumer will likely not pay to do this unless he is close to the repair center. Sure limits potential costs for the company.
    2) make the repairs ourselves, if we can determine the cause of whatever problem we are experiencing. That way the distributor is only out the cost of the part. The labor is on us.
    3) return it to the dealer and get our money back, if your dealer is agreeable to this option. Then what, look for a quality used machine. Tried that for about a year before making the plunge into Asian and there aren't any around these parts. If something comes up it is either snapped up before I get to make a phone call or it is way overpriced. Even so I would have had no idea what to look for since I have no experience with these machines until now. I guess I should be happy that I bought Asian because I now know a lot of things to look for if I ever did buy a used one.:)

    I wonder how much it would add to the cost of these machines to actually get some real quality control at the factory.
     
  19. entityunknown

    entityunknown United States Active Member Active Member

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    I think I know why you hate your lathe. Wood turning lathes spin at a much higher RPM so you're probably gonna have horrible finishes on everything I'd imagine. The compound isn't really effective at being a wood turning tool rest either. I believe there are design differences for how machines are oiled and the way travels being different based on expected wood dust vs. metal chips.

    It might just be the wrong tool for the job?

    I will say I'm kinda wishing I bought a gun smithing lathe instead but I'm quite happy with my mini and I won't need an upgrade for some time :)
     
  20. Old Squier

    Old Squier United States Active Member Active Member

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    Yeah, one would think a wood lathe would be better. But, they are not. In the artisan pipe world, metal lathes are used probably 5 to 1 over wood lathes. I use carbide inserts for steel, and I get an excellent finish. Offhand, I would say this is explained by the fact that the wood used is almost always briar - or if you prefer - bruyere. Briar is very, very hard. It does not tear on a metal lathe like other woods. I have experimented with quilted maple and the results are what you expected - terrible. But briar turns out great!

    I guess it's just one of those things - strange, but true!

    Thanks for mentioning this Entity.

    Cheers

    Squire

    Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma
     

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