1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. PLEASE: Read the FORUM RULES BEFORE registering!

    Dismiss Notice

G0602 Compound Problems. Thoughts, Ideas?

Discussion in 'GRIZZLY INDUSTRIAL INC.' started by Old Squier, Jan 1, 2017.

  1. Old Squier

    Old Squier United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City:
    Tahlequah
    State:
    Oklahoma

    -Return to Top-

    Happy New Year lads! Hope I'm in the right spot for my question. Looked in knowlege-base, but didn't find anything precisely on point.

    My Grizzly G 0602 lathe compound slide is experiencing extreme foulage. It's either tight as hide or horribly loose. Not only that, but both of these undesirable conditions exist along the entire travel of the slide. Moreover, it comes to a hard stop well short of full extension. I've worked with the gib adjustment to no avail. Backlash too, is awful on both compound and cross slide. Again, adjustment procedures in manual meet with negative results.

    Do I just need to undertake a total disassembly/rebuild on this little machine? My principal lathe is a high-quality precision toolroom machine with perfect, silky-smooth operation. It is totally trouble -free, whereas this beast has been a real POS from the get-go. It's making me crazy. Any pointers on disassembly will also be most happily received.

    Thanks in advance boys!


    Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk
     
  2. tlrascal

    tlrascal United States Iron Registered Member

    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    City:
    Lavaca
    State:
    Arkansas

    -Return to Top-

    Hey Old Squier, you are not too far from me as I am near Fort Smith. You can come over and see what I have done to the cross slide to help rigidity.
     
    brino and Old Squier like this.
  3. RJSakowski

    RJSakowski H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    2,155
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Barneveld
    State:
    Wisconsin

    -Return to Top-

    Squier, How old is your 602? Due to the relatively little use the compound lead screw sees under normal conditions, I wouldn't expect to see wear but you could have hardened lube deposits or rust which will make movement difficult. When you say either loose or tight does this occur with each revolution of the crank or does it vary from one end to the other of travel? A variation as you rotate the crank could indicate a bent lead screw whereas a variation with position of the compound would more likely be due to a misadjusted gib. Full travel on my compound is about 4.2"

    I would suggest pulling the compound off for cleaning, inspection, and lubrication. The compound lead screw has no convenient means for lubrication of the lead screw,ior thrust bearing.

    There is no lash adjustment for the compound lead screw other than thrust bearing play. The cross slide lead screw has an adjustment for lash in the lead screw nut. However, the manual's description is incorrect. The cap screw that they describe as the adjustment is actually the nut retaining screw and should be tight. Just forward of the cap screw is a cone point set screw which wedges into a split in the nut to provide bias and remove lash. This is part 920 in the parts diagram. Between that adjustment and the adjustment for thrust bearing play, you should be able to reduce backlash to an acceptable level. When adjusting lash, you need to check for freedom pof movement at the extremes of travel which normally don't see as much wear.

    Disassembly is fairly straightforward. The compound can easily be removed by loosening the gib screws and backing the compound off until the lead screw clears the nut. When reassembling make sure the slot in the gib nests the center adjustment setscrew.

    The 602 is not a tool room lathe by any stretch of the imagination but then neither is the price. It does have shortcomings as supplied. but I have found it to be a reasonably well made machine that benefits greatly from some customization and tuning.

    BTW, the set screw, part 920, was missing from my lathe when I bought it. A call to Grizzly got a replacement.
     
    mikey, brino and Old Squier like this.
  4. bosephus

    bosephus United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    441
    Trophy Points:
    63
    City:
    Lisbon
    State:
    Ohio

    -Return to Top-

    i think the best two things you can do to improve your compound is to make a four bolt clamp to improve rigidity .

    and rework the gibb and screws . my gibb strip was not even close to being flat . like you my compound went from to tight to way to loose .

    i spend an hour or two with a stone and worked it untill it was as flat as i could make it , and then went to work on the set screws .
    i made three new screws to replace the factory junk and then drilled and tapped two new holes in-between the three factory holes .

    i think the addition of the two new set screws made all of the difference
     
    brino and Old Squier like this.
  5. Old Squier

    Old Squier United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City:
    Tahlequah
    State:
    Oklahoma

    -Return to Top-

    Hey Rascal - thanks for your reply! Yeah, I'm not too far at all - 10 miles, or so, northeast of Tahlequah near the AR line. I would love to see what you have done. I've never sent a PM using Tapatalk. But, I'll try to figure it out tommorrow and see when we can get together.

    Squier a/k/a "Paul".



    Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk
     
  6. Old Squier

    Old Squier United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City:
    Tahlequah
    State:
    Oklahoma

    -Return to Top-

    Hi RJ! Than you for your informative post.

    First, I want to apologize if it sounded like I was trashing the G0602. I'm sure it's basically an okay machine. I've just had a LOT of problems with it. Bad motor, sand pillar to post, tailstock won't accept any of the three arbors Grizzly provided, so drilling anything properly is out till I have time to take it apart fand perhaps make some new/better parts. I know others who have had terrific results from their machines. So, not trashing it at all, just frustrated.

    Okay, my lathe was new in April 2016, manufactured (if my failing memory is correct) in the summer of 2015.

    The compound slide wobbles side-to-side with each turn of the crank. The problems of too loose/tight vary from end to end, and is especially tight near the end of its range of travel.

    I will definitely pull the compound as you and "Bocephus" suggest, to clean, repair, or replace any parts as needed.

    The discrepancy in the manual you mentioned is noted. Unfortunately, not the only discrepancy I've found. (The tailstock arbor for drill chuck).

    I shall also attempt, with as much attention and focus as I can muster, to adjust the lash again. Maybe I missed something on my previous 10-12 attempts. I will also be certain part 920 is in place.

    Thanks again RJ, I'll post again and let you know how it goes.

    Paul




    Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk
     
    brino likes this.
  7. bosephus

    bosephus United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    441
    Trophy Points:
    63
    City:
    Lisbon
    State:
    Ohio

    -Return to Top-

    give some consideration to adding the two extra Gibb screws ... it will put and keep a lot more surface in contact .
    the three factory screws just aren't enough .

    if the tail stock isnt right right i would give some serious thought to sending it back to grizzly
     
    Old Squier likes this.
  8. Old Squier

    Old Squier United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City:
    Tahlequah
    State:
    Oklahoma

    -Return to Top-

    Thank you Bocephus, for your suggestions. I've sure been lucky to catch your attention as well as that of RJ and Rascal. Looks as though the solution is going to lie in pulling the compound and tataking the action you guys reccomend. Then, try to hook-up with Rascal and see what he's done to his machine to increase rigidity.

    As I mentioned before, I'll post again and let you know the results.

    Thank again, Squier/Paul

    Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk
     
  9. Old Squier

    Old Squier United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City:
    Tahlequah
    State:
    Oklahoma

    -Return to Top-

    Hey Bocephus!

    Yeah, I can add the extra gib screws. Sounds like a great idea if it will help cure this doggone problem.

    Oh yeah, as for the tailstock, I did send it back. They said they would have someone look at it and report back before they sent out a replacement. Well, that didn't happen. Rather they sent me a new tailstock that was too tall. Can you believe they suggested I mill the bottom of the damned thing to get it to the correct height?: I told them they were nuts and requested another, correct, tailstock. It was at the correct height, but had the same issues as the first one. Ha, ha! A tech at Grizzly finally told me the truth: They really have no way to replace a tailstock with certainty as to height, whether or not a drill chuck arbor should have a tang or not, etc... This is because the factory that makes them changes specs willy-nilly and no one at Grizzly has any clue what tailstock shipped with a particular lathe. Great, huh?

    Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk
     
  10. bosephus

    bosephus United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    441
    Trophy Points:
    63
    City:
    Lisbon
    State:
    Ohio

    -Return to Top-

    oh you defiantly need to cut off any tang that might be on an arbor . matter of fact except for dead centers i have had to cut every arbor off right right before the start of the taper to get the full usable quill travel .
    having your tail stock a little high shouldn't be an issue even if its .004 -.005 to high heck someone who knows more then me might even allow for it being higher then that .
    i think .001-002 to high is a common practice to allow for wear .

    to my thinking it is much more important that it lines up on the same axis without any nod
     
    Old Squier likes this.
  11. Old Squier

    Old Squier United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City:
    Tahlequah
    State:
    Oklahoma

    -Return to Top-

    Bocephus. Thanks for your comments. I thought about grinding off the tang - the Grizzly tech told me not to bother. The manual, which supposedly applies to 602's on pg. 32, Fig. 35, actually depicts an arbor with a tang being inserted in the quill.

    I'll grind it off tommorrow!

    Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk
     
  12. Old Squier

    Old Squier United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City:
    Tahlequah
    State:
    Oklahoma

    -Return to Top-

    Oh, BTW Bocephus, the height differential was on the order of 1/4". Way off-axis. Bad bull.

    Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk
     
  13. RJSakowski

    RJSakowski H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    2,155
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Barneveld
    State:
    Wisconsin

    -Return to Top-

    I cut the tangs and/or shortened the tangs as well. You can leave the tangs on but they will decrease the useful travel of the tailstock quill. I trim them so they eject at about .05" short of full retraction.
     
    Old Squier likes this.
  14. Old Squier

    Old Squier United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City:
    Tahlequah
    State:
    Oklahoma

    -Return to Top-

    Unfortunately, RJ, the arbor (which does have a tang, will not seat or lock-up at all. So....drilling without the chuck twisting around like crazy is the result. I use this lathe primarily to turn blocks of briar wood that I shape into tobacco pipes. I usually drill the tobacco chamber with a 3/4" modified Silver & Deming bit. You can imagine what fun it is to drill while holding the chuck in place by hand.

    Thanks RJ.....Squier

    Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk
     
  15. entityunknown

    entityunknown United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    3
    City:
    Mesa
    State:
    Arizona

    -Return to Top-

    You might find it's the saddle/apron that's not as tight as you want. I kept blaming the cross slide on my G8688 but I found it was the saddle. Push down as hard as you can on the saddle and take a cut and see if it doesn't stop. The last thing I had to do to fix everything was switch over to carbide inserts, not the carbide brazed soft steel tools. The brazed worked great for Al but made noises of horror with steel unless it's an acute pointed tool.
    If still no go, you might want to consider brass gibs or changing out your set screws to use something like cupped set screws and balls from a bearing to seat your gibs. Maybe use some heavy thread locker too. Make sure you're also holding the set screw with the allen key as you tighten the lock nut with box wrench since a socket will ensure you over tighten your set screws.
     
  16. Old Squier

    Old Squier United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City:
    Tahlequah
    State:
    Oklahoma

    -Return to Top-

    Good morning Entity. Thanks for your comment!

    I will certainly check out the saddle. I'm thinking the set screws now on the lathe are crap. Replacement, as you and others have suggested should likely be replaced with better ones. Brass gins are an interesting idea too.

    I use this little lathe, primarily, to turn briar wood blocks for tobacco pipes rather than turning metal. I have a much bigger, better lathe for that. Still, I do turn AI from time to time and I have threaded stainless rod stock a time or two. I found regular, old homemade HSS to be pretty good, carbide inserts very good, and brazed carbide to be not so good, but okay for AI. The best finish I've had for AI has been HSS. Carbide inserts seem to be the best overall performer. Slow speeds when threading can sometimes be a challenge for carbide inserts, but they're best overall.

    Thanks again for your suggestions! With any luck at all will be able 2 work on the machine today sometime. I'll be posting the results here. Think good thoughts for me. Haha!


    Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk
     
  17. RJSakowski

    RJSakowski H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    2,155
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Barneveld
    State:
    Wisconsin

    -Return to Top-

    Lash in the cross slide is the amount of movement in the feed dial before you see movement of the cross slide when you reverse direction. The saddle position is fixed by the v groove riding on the lathe way. It cannot move forward or back from that position. It is possible that it could be lifting if the slide block (P/N 917) is loose but it shouldn't have a large effect on lash, if any. Likewise, cross slide gib adjustment, will not materially affect lash if loose. Over-tightening the gib will affect lash by requiring more effort to move the cross slide though. This causes torquing of the lead screw and increased pressure on the thrust bearing which will be seen as lost motion or lash.

    You can adjust the thrust bearing preload by moving the cross slide to the rear of the lathe so the lead screw is freed from the nut. Any resistance to rotation of the crank will now be due solely to the thrust bearing preload. Tighten up the preload until you start to feel increased resistance and back it off slightly from there. This should be close to your optimum adjustment. Reengage the cross feed nut by pulling the cross slide towards you as you rotate the crank. If you have difficulty moving the slide, you may have to loosen the gib. Adjust the cross feed nut set screw for a minimum movement of the crank before you feel resistance as you rock the crank back and forth. Grizzly recommends not trying to reduce the lash below .001" as a tighter adjustment increases wear on the components.

    Note that having lash in the cross slide is not a terrible thing. Lots of older lathes have significant amounts of lash due to wear of the lead screw or nut and still are capable of doing precision work. If the lash is too great and the gibs are loose, it can contribute to chatter though.

    To adjust the gib, I back off all the adjustments so the gib is free. With the cross slide in about the middle of travel, I tighten the center set screw until resistance to movement is observed and back it off slightly ( about 10º). Holding the screw in that position with an Allen wrench, I lock the jam nut. Then I bring the cross slide forward and adjust the rear set screw and finally, I move the cross slide to the rear and adjust the front set screw. Properly adjusted, the cross slide should move freely but there should be no discernible movement of the cross slide if you try to move it from side to side.

    I use a similar procedure to adjust the lash and play on the compound.
     
    brino and Old Squier like this.
  18. tmarks11

    tmarks11 Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    179
    Trophy Points:
    43
    City:
    Port Orchard
    State:
    Washington

    -Return to Top-

    Probably a silly question: did you extend the quill about an 1" before seating the arbor? The machine is designed to eject the MT arbor when you turn the quill back to 0", so it will never allow the arbor to seat until you extend the quill a bit. Not unique to this lathe, many lathes are designed like that.

    People cut the tang off the arbor to get the last inch of travel, and defeat the "self ejecting" feature.
     
    Old Squier likes this.
  19. RJSakowski

    RJSakowski H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    2,155
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Barneveld
    State:
    Wisconsin

    -Return to Top-

    I am intrigued by your tailstock issue. If you extend the tailstock quill about 2", are you still unable to get a Morse taper shank to lock? It would seem strange to have an improperly machined socket as they are usually finished with a reamer. If you can lock a shank in the socket at 2" extension but it comes loose before you fully retract the quill, the lead screw is pushing the taper out. This is a desirable feature as there is no other practical way to remove a seated shank.

    My MT3 shanks are cut to a length of 2.8" which will eject them are about .05" before full retraction of the quill. Prior to cutting the tanged shack on the drill chucks would eject at more than 1". The two MT3 dead centers that came with the lathe eject at about 5/8" but since, I am not concerned with maximizing the available travel when using the center, I left them as-is.

    If you continue to have issues, there is a work-around. I have a quick change tool post which come with a 3/4" boring bar tool holder and a drill chuck with a 3/4" shank. It is more of a PITA to set it up as you have to get the cross slide centered, the height correct, and the angle correct but it is used preferably by others to drill on the lathe because it permits using the power feed to advance the drill. Because of all the adjustments, it is also possible to accurately center the chuck on the spindle axis, allowing more precise holes to be drilled.
     
    brino and Old Squier like this.
  20. Old Squier

    Old Squier United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City:
    Tahlequah
    State:
    Oklahoma

    -Return to Top-

    Got the compound slide off and found the gib to have really big burrs on both ends. Weird, but true. So I fixed that issue. Lead screw looked okay, so I continued. Then I found the big culprit! The blind, threaded hole into which the leadscrew turns is mangled up pretty bad. That is, the internal threads are trashed. I'm referring here to the hole in the swivel base. Called Grizzly and have a new one and a new leadscrew for good measure, on the way via UPS.

    Hopefully, this will resolve the problem. Next, I'll take up the lash problem on the cross slide and return to the tailstock issue. THANK YOU ALL for your help!

    So, I'm forging ahead. Will post results as I go along.

    Squier

    Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk
     
    brino likes this.
  21. Old Squier

    Old Squier United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City:
    Tahlequah
    State:
    Oklahoma

    -Return to Top-

    T marks , not a silly question at all. The answer is "yes", I do extend the quill before trying to seat the arbor. You're certainly right, all tailstocks are similar in their operation. It's the way it worked on every lathe I've ever worked on, and before I retired I worked on several in the shops that employed me.

    Thanks again,

    Squier


    Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk
     
  22. Old Squier

    Old Squier United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City:
    Tahlequah
    State:
    Oklahoma

    -Return to Top-

    Hi RJ!

    Extending the quill about 45mm to 50mm and attempting to seat the Morse Taper is a "no-go" on my tailstock. It just refuses to lock-up.

    As mentioned earlier, my arbor had a tang. I just finished grinding the tang off. I'll be working on the lash and tailstock problems later today or this evening. I'll post the results here.

    Thank you very much for your interest in my problem.

    Cheers,

    Squier


    Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk
     
  23. tlrascal

    tlrascal United States Iron Registered Member

    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    City:
    Lavaca
    State:
    Arkansas

    -Return to Top-

    I live in Lavaca AR and would love to meet you and show you the mods I have made and share ideas with you. I have a G0752 which is the same lathe with variable speed. I have a G0759 mill with DRO and a G0720R mill I am just starting to use. It sounds like you have quite a bit more machining knowledge than I have but I am learning. I just turned 72 and have only been doing metalworking for about 3 years. I am retired and spend most of my time at home working on various projects. I have a friend Ray Kirk who lives in Talequah and does metalwork mostly knives. You might know him.
     
  24. Old Squier

    Old Squier United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City:
    Tahlequah
    State:
    Oklahoma

    -Return to Top-

    Howdy Rascal! Really look forward to meeting you and talking shop. I sent you a PM using Tapatalk. It has my contact info. Send me a PM and let me know how to get in touch so we can work out a day to meet. By the way, I'm certainly no expert. I'm a retired Gunsmith and learned to do some lathe work from my boss in a very busy Dallas shop. Lot's of small jobs mostly. I'm 57, but feel a little older. I've had a cardiac tumor, brain tumor, and now they tell me I'm gonna croak from end-stage liver disease. I'm talking to the transplant guys about getting one. On top of all this mess, I'm diabetic, suffer from diabetes, lupus, pad, perpheral neuropathy and osteoarthritis. Still kicking though and making chips fly!

    I look forward to hearing from you.

    Old Squier A/K/A Paul Mills



    Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk
     
  25. Old Squier

    Old Squier United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City:
    Tahlequah
    State:
    Oklahoma

    -Return to Top-

    Hey RJ....

    I disassembled the tailstock did C&O and reduced friction. Removed a giant chunk of Cosmo from the doggone thing too. Then I tried the arbor/drill chuck from which I ground off the tang. VOILA!!! SUCCESS!!!

    Thanks everyone who helped our with this issue.

    Squier

    Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk
     
    brino, RJSakowski and T Bredehoft like this.
  26. Dean Segovis

    Dean Segovis Iron Registered Member

    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    13
    City:
    Pinehurst
    State:
    North Carolina

    -Return to Top-

    Wow! I just read through this and other threads regarding the G0602. I was almost going to buy one for my restoration business but now I'm considering doing a full restoration on my 1944 SB 9A. I truly believe I will end up with a better machine in the end AND leave $1500 in my bank account. If I were to spend that much money I would NOT be happy fixing flaws in the equipment right out of the box! Thanks for sharing your experiences Squire. Hope that beast keeps working well for you with minimal fixes.
     
    brino likes this.
  27. tmarks11

    tmarks11 Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    179
    Trophy Points:
    43
    City:
    Port Orchard
    State:
    Washington

    -Return to Top-

    On these forums, it is often hard to determine the level of experience of the participants. I have read postings from people with their first lathe who don't understand how that works and think it is broken.

    Good to hear that it was an easy fix and not a manufacturing issue.
     
  28. Old Squier

    Old Squier United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City:
    Tahlequah
    State:
    Oklahoma

    -Return to Top-

    Dean,

    Whatever you do, don't buy one of these lathes! Keep your SB and spruce it up. Thank God I have a Precision Matthews 1340GT for turning metal. Looking to add a Summit or PM 1660 this year. I just use the G0602 for turning blocks of briar wood to make tobacco pipes. It doesn't even do that well. It's an ongoing project for me.

    Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk
     
  29. Old Squier

    Old Squier United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City:
    Tahlequah
    State:
    Oklahoma

    -Return to Top-

    Tmarks,

    Thanks for your remarks. I have a fair amount of experience operating machine tools, but I'm a lousy mechanic! I live way, way out in the boonies - nothing but deer, possums, coons, foxes, and such. No way you get any help from anyone out here. So I'm forced to be my own mechanic even though I stink at it.

    Best regards,

    Squier

    Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk
     
  30. Dean Segovis

    Dean Segovis Iron Registered Member

    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    13
    City:
    Pinehurst
    State:
    North Carolina

    -Return to Top-

    Thanks for the feedback. I just spent the better part of this afternoon going over my SB. It's needing a lot of work to bring it back to a decent spec. I simply do NOT have the time for that. It runs and all the feeds work OK but the ways are a bit worn and everything has a lot of backlash. I think it's time to post it up on Craigslist and just pull the trigger on a 12" lathe.
     

Share This Page