First mill/drill help

I made a statement that I feel very comfortable with, this isn't a rant, but rather an airing of my thoughts because this continues to come up and be argued about.

All does not depend upon the machine, I have seen people who might have enjoyed a particular hobby brought on by the shear effort required to rehab junk before they could even start enjoying the hobby; because they were not prepared nor interested in the can of worms they had opened to save a little money. In my life I have rebuilt tractors, tinkered with engines to the point of mixing parts and custom machining, built custom cars from the ground up and rebuilt an old large mill which looked great when I bought it and turned into a train wreck in short order and that is my short list. It depends upon the Person first then it depended upon that person's desires and patients and based upon those the right machine can make or break their interest in the hobby. I had access to and used mills on many occasions before buying my first, I do not assume others have had the same opportunities, I assume they are new to the hobby and have a lot of basic stuff they need to and want to learn before tackling a machine rehab at any level; I assume they are buying a machine to learn machining, not to learn how to work on the machine.....
personally i'm somewhere in the middle, have much the same experience as you and i have no issue with working on my equipment but when it comes to a mill or lathe that was made in the 50s/60s that may or may not have available parts and ways that are all but unserviceable i tend to be very careful. the other issues hiding in the corner is that some of the industrial equipment requires very expensive parts if they can even be sourced.

not saying that it cannot be done but am saying the difference between a completely clapped out mill or lathe and a good serviceable mill or lathe is difficult for a novice to detect.

the other aspect is that on old iron the size/weight alone constitutes a considerable commitment.
 
Thank's for your reply. I myself started with a beat up 618 Atlas (that I rebuilt myself) and a Burke #5 mill. After many junkers I ended up with a1440 and BP. The guy who asked for input should have gone out and got a machine period. If it bites him in the ass he'll move up to better stuff. If you were not a machinist to begin with and this work intrigues you, you'll gain experience and buy better machines as I and many others have done. It's like buying a used car.
 
Thank's for your reply. I myself started with a beat up 618 Atlas (that I rebuilt myself) and a Burke #5 mill. After many junkers I ended up with a1440 and BP. The guy who asked for input should have gone out and got a machine period. If it bites him in the ass he'll move up to better stuff. If you were not a machinist to begin with and this work intrigues you, you'll gain experience and buy better machines as I and many others have done. It's like buying a used car.
that is something i'm likely to do but
"Beginner here. I'd like to be able to machine small parts in both aluminum and steel. Space is at a absolute premium in my shop, as in I have none, and so I'm considering swapping my drill press for a mill/drill. I only have space for something that is ~24" wide and ~28" deep (or smaller) and mobile so under 250lbs or so. I've been looking at small 13/14" mill/drills. Its my understanding that these small mill/drill combo's aren't the best for serious milling, but for learning and making small parts, I'm assuming it should fit my needs. I've been looking at something like this:"

may not be the best advice for this guy?
 
that is something i'm likely to do but
"Beginner here. I'd like to be able to machine small parts in both aluminum and steel. Space is at a absolute premium in my shop, as in I have none, and so I'm considering swapping my drill press for a mill/drill. I only have space for something that is ~24" wide and ~28" deep (or smaller) and mobile so under 250lbs or so. I've been looking at small 13/14" mill/drills. Its my understanding that these small mill/drill combo's aren't the best for serious milling, but for learning and making small parts, I'm assuming it should fit my needs. I've been looking at something like this:"

may not be the best advice for this guy?
That guy remark is the Brooklyn in me. Get a dedicated milling machine and go from there. You'll be fine.
 
It's like buying a used car.
My partner's mother is 83. Two years ago she bought a Ford Ka+. It was 3 years old, one previous owner. Quite tidy.

It's absolutely nothing like buying a used car. :big grin:

It's several orders of magnitude more complex. Pretty much everyone can, or knows someone who can assess a secondhand car.

Also these days there are standards a car has to meet before one can get the insurance to be able to drive it on the road.

People who have absolutely zero background in machining (and in the UK, this may be more common than in the States) are like a person who knows about the concept of a car and its high level functionality and maybe has seen pictures of cars but has never touched one, let alone driven one.

Now, depending on their budget, space and location, they may have access to a company like PM (or in the UK, to a lesser extent, Warco) and have access to functionally acceptable/decent quality machine tools with the backup/support and advice needed to buy with confidence.

If not, there is the secondhand market and old iron but that's a bloody intimidating prospect for people lacking the necessary experience.

That's why a lot of people buy mini-lathes; it's a cheap way in (or looks like it, anyway) where they assume they'll get something workable out of the box. They find out truth soon enough (and if they stick with it and see it as a project of fettling and improvement, they end up with very mixed feelings :grin:).

The advice to buy old iron can be good advice, if it's given in the right context and with the necessary caveats.

Let's face it, if one had a choice between a suitably sized Colchester, Harrison, Boxford (or US equivalent) with QCGB say, in mint condition on the one hand, and a PM 10x30 on the other, most would feel that the old iron would be the better buy.

However, that's going to be an uncommon choice. The reality is that the unknowns of buying older used machine tools can also make a lot of people feel helpless and incapable and possibly end up with them missing out on a fantastic education and discovering skills that they never imagined they had.

There one significant reason for the existence of this forum and that's the experience of getting advice on starting out on other forums. ;)

Eh, within the bounds of the rules of this forum, it's our own business what advice we give to beginners, but perhaps we might take their constraints seriously and weigh our words carefully when giving advice to people. :)
 
My partner's mother is 83. Two years ago she bought a Ford Ka+. It was 3 years old, one previous owner. Quite tidy.

It's absolutely nothing like buying a used car. :big grin:

It's several orders of magnitude more complex. Pretty much everyone can, or knows someone who can assess a secondhand car.

Also these days there are standards a car has to meet before one can get the insurance to be able to drive it on the road.

People who have absolutely zero background in machining (and in the UK, this may be more common than in the States) are like a person who knows about the concept of a car and its high level functionality and maybe has seen pictures of cars but has never touched one, let alone driven one.

Now, depending on their budget, space and location, they may have access to a company like PM (or in the UK, to a lesser extent, Warco) and have access to functionally acceptable/decent quality machine tools with the backup/support and advice needed to buy with confidence.

If not, there is the secondhand market and old iron but that's a bloody intimidating prospect for people lacking the necessary experience.

That's why a lot of people buy mini-lathes; it's a cheap way in (or looks like it, anyway) where they assume they'll get something workable out of the box. They find out truth soon enough (and if they stick with it and see it as a project of fettling and improvement, they end up with very mixed feelings :grin:).

The advice to buy old iron can be good advice, if it's given in the right context and with the necessary caveats.

Let's face it, if one had a choice between a suitably sized Colchester, Harrison, Boxford (or US equivalent) with QCGB say, in mint condition on the one hand, and a PM 10x30 on the other, most would feel that the old iron would be the better buy.

However, that's going to be an uncommon choice. The reality is that the unknowns of buying older used machine tools can also make a lot of people feel helpless and incapable and possibly end up with them missing out on a fantastic education and discovering skills that they never imagined they had.

There one significant reason for the existence of this forum and that's the experience of getting advice on starting out on other forums. ;)

Eh, within the bounds of the rules of this forum, it's our own business what advice we give to beginners, but perhaps we might take their constraints seriously and weigh our words carefully when giving advice to people. :)
Did you run out and buy a $20.000 lathe when you started ??????. I think not, you got a used car.
 
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