[Newbie] Electrical components

DavidR8

H-M Supporter - Sustaining Member
Staff member
H-M Platinum Supporter
Joined
Oct 16, 2019
Messages
6,576
These are a few shots of the electrical box that was attached to my surface grinder.
Because I’m now running it off as VFD I don’t need any of these components.
At the risk of exposing my complete ignorance I think the bottom two are magnetic switches for the grinder and the coolant pump.
I’m not sure what the top unit is though. Looks vaguely like a transformer.
67dcab221cdb87363cf66940853eb917.jpg



f532fbe5974849165da02fb1da959405.jpg

5690156669fc30fb82ff56f55b6408e4.jpg

79d24a7828e536768b632c8ec79413fe.jpg
 
it's hard to tell by the pictures. My lathe had a transformer to reduce the voltage to the switches.
 
It looks like on those plates should be the layer of steel used in one if it looks like the pictures my bet is that it is a transformer.
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    1 MB · Views: 14
  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    1.2 MB · Views: 15
Is it a a transformer to step the voltage down to 120 for the coolant pump. I don't remember what yours was..
 
Is it a a transformer to step the voltage down to 120 for the coolant pump. I don't remember what yours was..

Oh right.
There was a light on the column that would be lit when the machine was running. The transformer must have been to power the light.
The coolant pump is 3ph so a transformer wouldn’t have been needed.
 
Time to have a think about things like E-Stop, and services like coolant pump, and exactly what features are provided on your VFD besides a knob speed control. Sure - you can just bypass all the previous stuff, and use the VFD like it's a model train controller, but it helps to check before you start cutting wires.

First is to understand what you have got, and what you should retain. There absolutely has to be an isolator switch upstream of the whole lot. Usually, there is one on the wall, but often there is a rotary type, fully rated switch on the machine as well. That has to be kept.
Things with "starts" and "stops" have latched contactors. For you, the coolant pump contactor, and circuits would be retained.

The motivation for using contactors of that construction for switching to induction motors is because of the motor's excellent ability to turn switch contacts into a welded up mess when switching the motor OFF! Suddenly disconnecting the forward current leaves the motor spinning as a generator with inertia, and the energy stored in it's magnetic fields will make a HIGH voltage, and try to spark over an arc. A contactor has a pivoted bar with a switch contact at both ends, which interrupts the current in a way that the arc cannot get going. When the control of the current is via solid state semiconductors (i.e. VFD), that problem goes away.

The general start-stop method is to have the (momentary normally open) start button power a contactor coil which has a separate relay contact on it devoted to "holding itself on", or "latched". It allows to let go of the start button. The "stop" pushbutton is a momentary normally closed type in series with the latching contact, allowing it to "drop out", and come to a stop. This "stop" circuit is also put in series with a mechanically latched E-Stop, with a big flat red knob, that gets re-set with a twist or a tug. The whole philosophy here is not to have a situation where the machine is switched on like a light bulb, and can end up hung in a switched on state doing massive damage, mangling your face from a caught-up shirt, whatever, with welded together switch contacts prolonging the mayhem!

The "ENABLE" on your VFD
It is usually there somewhere. Most have buttons direct on the case, but if to be controlled from external ON and OFF switches, have connections for that. The good ones are safety rated such that an E-Stop switch can be wired to the ENABLE, guaranteed to stop the drive, and render the motor connections so safe that you could work on it's connections (I would never trust that)! Similarly, there can be places on the VFD to connect your START and STOP switches.

As example, here is a picture of an (old) motor controller I have diverted from being trashed.
XD-08-MN Motor Controller.jpg

You can see the row of buttons to start, and stop, and setup. You can also see the other terminals to hook up to external buttons for start, and stop functions.

Your surface grinder
Getting your kit right should be quite easy. Probably the most important check is to know what the transformer does. Sure, the contactor for the grinder motor is now replaced by VFD, but you might want to retain START and STOP, etc push-button switches. Just add a extra hole for the external speed control potentiometer.

My bet is the transformer supplies the isolated safe low voltage (usually 24V) for latching the coils of the contactors, putting through E-Stop safety circuits, and stuff like that. These transformers also supply the power to light up the indication lights. Usually the ON running bulb is powered from across the contactor relay. Your VFD may have an ON state output for this, or a output that can drive a relay to light it up.

The wiring diagram and instructions for your VFD may be a good start. While I am sure I could get enough indications from the display of the example drive in the picture, I would be seeking to have it hidden away in the control enclosure, and it can light up external lamps, and respond to external push-buttons that were there on the original kit.
 
Last edited:
Hi David:

The Vintage Machinery site has a fairly detailed wiki page on magnetic starters:


The wiki page may help to back up what @graham-xrf recommended above (all of which seems sensible to me).

Craig
Disclaimer: I am not electrician and I've never even touched a VFD in real life!
 
David,
my lathe, all three-phase, used a transformer powered from one leg of the 3-phase to convert to 120v ac as a control voltage which runs to all the clutches, motor starters, control relays and push buttons.
because I run the motor (s) via the VFD, I removed the transformer from the circuit and ran a separate 120v ac line which is dedicated to the control elements.
 
So you have a Vfd for the grinding spindle...what are you going to run the pump from? It is also 3 phase.
You can see the control transformer reduces the 3 phase hi voltage to a single phase low voltage....115 vac.
Control voltages are just that a lower voltage circuit almost always single phase meant to control the functions of the machine.
Older machines generally used 115 vac.
It wasn't until later that the use of DC control voltages started being used.
Avoid over complicated circuits on this simple unguarded machine.
 
The transformer is there to power the coils on the contractors (relays) that control the motors. Typically control circuits are 24v.
 
Back
Top