Cutting large lead ingots

brasssmanget said:
Thanks! I think my course of action is to get these cut into smaller blocks and proceed from there. I'm going to look around for a log splitter rental first. These things are not liftable by one person. Not 500lbs, but easily over 200lbs.....
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Pure lead is pretty close to .41 pounds per cubic inch. If they are in the 200lb range you have some really garbage alloy.
 
If no access to log splitter, I have used a sawzall (reciprocating saw) on lead with a corse tooth blade, never as thick as 5" but it should work well. Don't worry too much about "dust" as it will produce small granular chips, nothing that would go airborne. If you work over a tarp or similar you can contain the chips and avoid contamination of the work area. Wear gloves and keep the blade for lead only. Also be sure to wear a respirator with metal fume cartridges when melting lead.
 
Eddyde said:
If no access to log splitter, I have used a sawzall (reciprocating saw) on lead with a corse tooth blade, never as thick as 5" but it should work well. Don't worry too much about "dust" as it will produce small granular chips, nothing that would go airborne. If you work over a tarp or similar you can contain the chips and avoid contamination of the work area. Wear gloves and keep the blade for lead only. Also be sure to wear a respirator with metal fume cartridges when melting lead.
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That's funny. I work with a lot of guys who melt lead, and unless you are getting a lot higher than normal working temperatures there are almost no lead fumes. Lead dust and exposure from handling and improper hygiene are the big risks. Smoking, eating, drinking, and rubbed off lead or lead dust inhalation are the primary vectors. You can also get lead poisoning form lead in water tanks that were soldered with lead solder. It is very slightly water soluble over a long time. Yes, it happened. Right here in Yuma. Numerous cases, and the company that did it is justifiably out of business. If you would like talk to Chris Newgren on Tackle Underground. He goes by the handle of kasilofchrisn over there. He was in the lead business for a while.

I hear the fumes thing all the time, but I have not been able to find any documentation that fumes are a real risk unless you are WAY overheating your lead. It melts around 621F and pours nicely depending on the exact alloy from 700-850F (850 is the max temp on my lead pot). I did find one source that made this claim, * "When lead is molten, it releases minute amounts of vapors at a progressive rate as temperatures are increased. Harmful levels of lead vaporization are believed to occur at elevated temperatures above 1800 degrees (F)." According to ** Wikipedia the boil point of lead is 3180 °F, so if the other source is correct. It possible its releasing some harmful vapor at less than the boiling point, but its more than twice the working temperatures unless maybe you are melting it with a torch. There is also and interesting old discussion on the subject over at *** Cast Boolits, or if you want you can read the **** MSDS on lead and get really confused. LOL. Seriously just about everybody thinks lead dust and contact ingestion or inhalation of dust is the big risk. There are some minor risks of vapors from oxides which vaporize at lower temperatures, but the quantity is typically very small.

* http://kansasangler.com/makeit.html
** https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead
*** http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?121103-Lead-Fumes-let-s-settle-this
**** http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927204
 
Well Bob, better safe than sorry. I have a friend that used to spray IMRON w/o a respirator until he wound up in the hospital... I learned to use a scott pack type respirator when spraying that stuff. WHAT YOU DON"T KNOW CAN HURT YOU. Not trying to be the safety police, but making fun of someone who wants to be safe is not my idea of being helpful.
 
woodchucker said:
Well Bob, better safe than sorry. I have a friend that used to spray IMRON w/o a respirator until he wound up in the hospital... I learned to use a scott pack type respirator when spraying that stuff. WHAT YOU DON"T KNOW CAN HURT YOU. Not trying to be the safety police, but making fun of someone who wants to be safe is not my idea of being helpful.
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So you are saying his advice to use a saw and throw lead particles every where which is a real risk is trying to be safe? Seriously? I posted a summary of basic lead handling and risks backed up with references. Some better than others. That's not making fun of anybody. Thats a responsible response to an irresponsible post. Since I work with lead several times a week while doing testing, and I have clients who work with lead every day I take this seriously. I reported actual facts and reasonable assumptions based on available data. I even provided links for anybody who wanted read them themselves. I also provided a personal contact who was in the lead processing business. If you don't like what I had to say that's not me making fun of anybody. That's just you not liking it. So breathing a foreign substance like imron into your lungs is a good example and you think spreading lead particles all over the place with a saw is safe? Think about that for a minute. Sure there may be some circumstances where you have a small risk of lead fumes, but the problem we are seeing here is taking a reciporcating saw with a fairly high cycle rate and assuming its NOT going to spray some lead dust around. Geez.

If you want to wear a respirator fine. I have no issue with that. It won't hurt you unless you have a breathing disorder. I do have an issue with spewing lead dust all over the place with a saw. That respirator (oratleast a particle mask with a good seal) is probably a good idea if you are going to cut lead with a power saw. It won't prevent secondary exposures when you work on all the surfaces in the area, but it will keep you from breathing in lead dust and particles at the time of contamination. The actual physical amount of lead in your system necessary to be dangerous is pretty small, and breathing in lead dust is one of the worst things you can do. While your body may process some lead out, generally lead poisoning like other heavy metal poisoning is considered cumulative. Physical contact with particles and lead by ingestion and inhaltions of dust is the big risk. Saying wear a mask when you melt it but don't worry about yourself or anybody else who might come in the area later after you have sprayed lead around with a power saw is NOT being safe. Its plugging the pinhole in the dike while leaving the gate wide open.
 
yea, I was thinking you thought his use of a mask was funny.
The chunks that are going to come out from a saw may or may not be an issue. Most of the guys here have been in shooting ranges.. and many reload. So many are laughing at this conversation. But hey, if a guy wants to wear a mask, I'm ok with it. I personally agree with it, but have poured a lot of molds w/o the respirator.
 
Bob La Londe said:
So you are saying his advice to use a saw and throw lead particles every where which is a real risk is trying to be safe? Seriously? I posted a summary of basic lead handling and risks backed up with references. Some better than others. That's not making fun of anybody. Thats a responsible response to an irresponsible post. Since I work with lead several times a week while doing testing, and I have clients who work with lead every day I take this seriously. I reported actual facts and reasonable assumptions based on available data. I even provided links for anybody who wanted read them themselves. I also provided a personal contact who was in the lead processing business. If you don't like what I had to say that's not me making fun of anybody. That's just you not liking it. So breathing a foreign substance like imron into your lungs is a good example and you think spreading lead particles all over the place with a saw is safe? Think about that for a minute. Sure there may be some circumstances where you have a small risk of lead fumes, but the problem we are seeing here is taking a reciporcating saw with a fairly high cycle rate and assuming its NOT going to spray some lead dust around. Geez.

If you want to wear a respirator fine. I have no issue with that. It won't hurt you unless you have a breathing disorder. I do have an issue with spewing lead dust all over the place with a saw. That respirator (oratleast a particle mask with a good seal) is probably a good idea if you are going to cut lead with a power saw. It won't prevent secondary exposures when you work on all the surfaces in the area, but it will keep you from breathing in lead dust and particles at the time of contamination. The actual physical amount of lead in your system necessary to be dangerous is pretty small, and breathing in lead dust is one of the worst things you can do. While your body may process some lead out, generally lead poisoning like other heavy metal poisoning is considered cumulative. Physical contact with particles and lead by ingestion and inhaltions of dust is the big risk. Saying wear a mask when you melt it but don't worry about yourself or anybody else who might come in the area later after you have sprayed lead around with a power saw is NOT being safe. Its plugging the pinhole in the dike while leaving the gate wide open.
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Pardon, but with all due respect, A sawzall (reciprocating saw) doesn't "spray dust all over the place" when cutting lead no airborne dust is created the chips fall to the ground pretty much directly below the cut and are easily contained, I know because I have done it many times. I also specifically said to use a tarpaulin or some similar means of collecting the chips so as not to contaminate the area. I even said to keep the blade segregated so as not to contaminate other work and to use gloves. True I did not mention using a dust mask while cutting the lead, only because I think it goes without saying to always use one while cutting anything, I didn't mention eye protection either but of course that is prudent when using any power saw.
Yes, I have melted and cast lead many times back in the day, before respirators were a common thing, I remember getting some headaches too. About 20 years ago a machinist friend warned me to always use a respirator when melting lead, I have ever since and no more headaches. While lead may or may not off-gas at low melt temperatures however, there are likely other contaminants present, that may create toxic fumes as well. Therefore I still think it is wise to wear a respirator when melting lead or most anything else.
Be safe.
 
Bob La Londe said:
Pure lead is pretty close to .41 pounds per cubic inch. If they are in the 200lb range you have some really garbage alloy.
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I went to the shop and measured the blocks. 12" x 12" x 3.25". Not the 16" previously quoted - so that would put them in a 200 +/- lb range. Have not physically weighed them - just going from guestimates from the person(s) who delivered them to my shop.
 
I've melted and cast , cut sawed ground even sliced and bit lead in my life. I'm not saying it's right but I'm over sixty and I guess lucky . We didn't know any better back then , I agree trying to protect yourself and others but really there are extremists that think everything is bad , lead is in the earth just about everywhere. The real threats never showed up till the paint chips being eaten by children started causing brain damage. And science figured it was in there system . Your not going to be hurt by doing anything with lead on short period basis . I melt lead several times a year for bullets to reload , I don't sit over the molten lead or even use a mask . I do it outside nowadays but use to do it in my kitchen on my coal stove with my pot on the coals so even then the fumes went up the chimney.
So be safe but don't go NAZI on the working with lead.
 
I do have one last thing to say about power saws. They do not consistently make all the same size chips. It will vary based on feed rate, blade pressure and operator technique. There may be only a miniscule amount of fine pieces, but I'd bet money there are traces of lead places you don't expect.

Well, everybody has certainly had a say. I handle lead all the time and use a melting pot in my shop several times a week. Sometimes I have a couple melting pots going at once. I certainly don't follow all the recommended safety precautions, but I do pay attention to them, and I really did actually read the MSDS on lead. I'd suggest you atleast read all the information available and make your own informed decisions.
 
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