Clausing 100 mk3a Timken spindle bearings

[Latinrascalrg1]

Mwm54 thank you, that is all good info and it is very much appreciated.

 

[Latinrascalrg1]

In this particular case,it seems a suitable dimensioned replacement was available,just not the precision grade required by the user....this can sometimes be cured by a selection of bearings......and a co operative supplier......or the old adage...what cant be cured must be endured.

This is a Serious although admittedly probably farfetched question but nothing ventured nothing gained soooo is there anyone who knows if there is any way to Improve on the quality of these sub-par bearings themselves somehow? Maybe by some type of lapping or grinding process? Im thinking thats probably not a realistic achievable goal, at least for the hobbyist but I find brainstorming with like minded people to be very beneficial plus i guess my way of thinking has Always been that "Nothing has EVER been possible until It Was!"

 

[markba633csi]

Not possible to improve a bearing's grade AFAIK
once it's manufactured and assembled

 

[Latinrascalrg1]

Not possible to improve a bearing's grade AFAIK
once it's manufactured and assembled

Ok even this is good...because this statement has me asking the question of How different grade bearings are produced? My train of thought is that in the metal working world the precision is worked out of the material.....or it gets better as more work is put into it! So my thoughts are that these "lesser" grade bearings were put together before they were "finished" being made into high grade bearings! If this holds any water then I believe it opens up different possibilities that may have been overlooked, maybe!

 

[macardoso]

because this statement has me asking the question of How different grade bearings are produced?

Typically all grades of bearings are produced on the same line, although perhaps with extra care being required if making large quantities of precision bearings. The completed races, balls, rollers, cups, etc are measured for runout, surface finish, form error, hardness, and any other important traits before being binned for assembly in a particular class of accuracy. The bearing assemblies are then put together and final checks for vibration, runout, and temperature are conducted to verify the bearing meets the required specifications for an accuracy class. If it fails, it is not thrown out, but rather marked and packaged as a lower accuracy class (unless it is non-functional of course). If you dive into bearing classification, you will find that there are specifications for runout of each race as well as the entire assembly. If over production of high class bearings occurs, the manufacturer can choose to brand them at a lower accuracy class, although I doubt this happens often in practice.

 

[Latinrascalrg1]

Ok so they produce large amounts of the individual "balls or pins" bearing that are then divided into separate batches based of how close to "perfect" they actually are. These are then matched to a set of races and then depending on their actual performance as a group are then designated a precision grade. I realize this is really simplifying the subject matter however is this pretty much what happens?

 

[macardoso]

I realize this is really simplifying the subject matter however is this pretty much what happens?

Pretty much! If you know each component of the bearing meets a manufacturing specification, then when the bearing is assembled, all you need to do is a final verification of the performance of the assembly. There should be no surprises about what class the assembly will meet.

Here is a horrendously oversimplified How it's Made episode:

 

[Mwmx54]

There is also an old video of clausing company building machines that shows them checking every single individual roller, and putting them in separate bins so that (I assume) like size rollers can all be assembled together into bearings. It’s a cool video, Brian bloc on YouTube found and posted or reposted it on YouTube not long ago.

 

[wa5cab]

Standards of tolerance for ball bearings and tapered roller bearings are called different things. Tapered roller bearings that we would be interested in are covered in the US by ANSI/ABMA and their "goodness" is defined as their Class, which for unknown historical reasons, runs from poorer to better as Class 4, 2, 3, 0, 00 and 000. Timken has their own system which seems to use the same standards but is called (nothing), (nothing), C, B, A and AA. By (nothing), I mean that nothing is engraved on the bearing to say that it meets a particular class. Timken claims, as far as I can tell, that all unmarked bearings that they sell are at least Class 2.

The various dimensions of the bearings are all specified but the only one that ever gets mentioned seems to be the assembled bearing radial runout. And for the most part, the only bearing that anyone ever reports having measured is the one nearest the chuck. Because of the way that both the Clausing and the Atlas spindles are made, most of the other dimensional tolerances either aren't as important are just aren't important when assembling or using the headstock. It has generally been assumed that the spindle bearings found with engraved dates in the Atlas machines (no one has ever said whether or not the Clausing machines had dated bearings during the same roughly 1940 to 1953 time frame) are Class 3 (AKA Class C)

I was unsuccessful in getting Timken to confirm this but the logical assumption is that bearing classes are produced like the old carbon composition resistors were. Suppose that the company has orders on hand for X Class 2, Y Class 3 and Z Class 0 bearings. So they make X+Y+Z bearings and start testing. When they have marked Z of them as Class 0 and the rest as Class 2 or 3, they quit testing to or marking Class 0. When they have marked Y as Class 3, everything remaining only gets tested to Class 2 (which are not marked, or maybe are only marked as Timken). So the bearings in the Class 2 bin are at least Class 2 but could be better. And I would guess that the ones that don't meet Class 2 get sold to someone else for sale to people who are more concerned about cost than anything else.

 

[Mwmx54]

I just bought on eBay, a vintage looking 14137A front spindle cone. The bearing itself is marked X, like the original, but the box says class 0. Does anyone know what class the 0 is, I mean where it compares to the original bearing. I’ve been watching eBay for over a year for these bearings in some sort of precision class. Someday a rear precision cone will pop up too, and some outer races. I got the bearing for $22 shipped.
The pic shows what the box says. I’m hoping it’s better than the brand new timken I had to put in, which is surprisingly bad.