Are drill bits consumables?

Valid point, did not realize that... I was hoping for one machine that could do them all...
it may, but those collets look very big for 3mm. and 3mm is quite large.
I have seen many guys reviewing both drill dr, and the MR unit that they have sharpened bits that were new, and got a better grind then new. Even the top manufacturers screw up once in a while. I had a made in USA NOS bit, and it wasn't cutting. The relief was higher than the cutting edge... doh.
 
I'm in the camp of those that consider the DD crap. I've tried them twice, once many years ago and again in 2017. I'm no slouch when it comes to figuring out how to use a tool/machine, but I could never get even close to satisfactory results. Even with the more recent model (up to 3/4" capacity with adjustable relief ange, IIRC), I did not like the relief angle, but most of all I though the grind finish was horrid (first photo). I tried the finer, 180 grit wheel, but even that was too gross. I'm comparing to factory finish on Precision Twist Drills.

It was at the end of my DD trials in 2017 that I came across the Tormek wet grinding sharpening system and in looking at its drill bit jig, I discovered the clamping block that holds and aligns the drills was almost exactly like that on a professional drill bit sharpening machine that I had used in a friend's shop (second photo). Not a collet system like the Vevor, which looks to be excellent, but a positive clamping and alignment method, which when set up correctly is flipped over on the table for grinding opposing flutes. This was enough to push me past the huge price of the Tormek, knowing that it also sharpens a wide range of tools, many of which I use and need sharpened.

The stock/standard Tormek grinding wheel is around 220 grit and can be graded finer, closer to 1000 grit and produces a much finer finish, much closer to the factory finishes I wanted (third photo, showing a 4-facet grind) - on my first attempt. The Tormek is not fast, especially for roughing and heavier grinding. Initially, I set it up with a traditional Norton 3X bench grinder wheel, which worked very well (fourth photo). This is also my best photo of the overall setup, even though it isn't with a Tormek grinding wheel installed. I have since added a CBN 180 grit and diamond wheels at 320, 600, and 1200 grit which produce spectacular finishes. I have a 4000 grit Japanese wheel but have not used it on drills yet, but I have on knives and scissors.

I am very impressed with the Vevor, at least from watching the review videos. There are two aspects of the Tormek that are less than optimal, 1) visual alignment of the flutes relative (first step with the Vevor, on the left side) and 2) speed. Both of these are implemented much better with the Vevor, from what I can see on the review videos. I especially liked Tubelcain's view of the flute alignment setup, very positive (fifth photo). And quite clearly, the Vevor would be much faster. I am also very impressed with the Vevor ER collet chuck system and that it will go down to 3/32" diameter drills. The Tormek says it will go down to 1/8", but the clamping system does not function well with such small drills. I have worked around that by holding smaller drills in a pin chuck (sixth photo).
 

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  • Drill Doctor 180 Grit 04-29-18 640.JPG
    Drill Doctor 180 Grit 04-29-18 640.JPG
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  • DBS-22 Drill Bit Holder 05-03-18 640.jpg
    DBS-22 Drill Bit Holder 05-03-18 640.jpg
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  • First 4 Facet Drill 08-25-17 640.JPG
    First 4 Facet Drill 08-25-17 640.JPG
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  • Secondary Relief Setup 05-01-18 640.JPG
    Secondary Relief Setup 05-01-18 640.JPG
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  • Vevor 13B Lip Alignment 12.32 Pt 2 02-04-24.JPG
    Vevor 13B Lip Alignment 12.32 Pt 2 02-04-24.JPG
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  • Four Facet 92 Thou Drill Point 10-02-18 640.JPG
    Four Facet 92 Thou Drill Point 10-02-18 640.JPG
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I'm in the camp of those that consider the DD crap. I've tried them twice, once many years ago and again in 2017. I'm no slouch when it comes to figuring out how to use a tool/machine, but I could never get even close to satisfactory results. Even with the more recent model (up to 3/4" capacity with adjustable relief ange, IIRC), I did not like the relief angle, but most of all I though the grind finish was horrid (first photo). I tried the finer, 180 grit wheel, but even that was too gross. I'm comparing to factory finish on Precision Twist Drills.

It was at the end of my DD trials in 2017 that I came across the Tormek wet grinding sharpening system and in looking at its drill bit jig, I discovered the clamping block that holds and aligns the drills was almost exactly like that on a professional drill bit sharpening machine that I had used in a friend's shop (second photo). Not a collet system like the Vevor, which looks to be excellent, but a positive clamping and alignment method, which when set up correctly is flipped over on the table for grinding opposing flutes. This was enough to push me past the huge price of the Tormek, knowing that it also sharpens a wide range of tools, many of which I use and need sharpened.

The stock/standard Tormek grinding wheel is around 220 grit and can be graded finer, closer to 1000 grit and produces a much finer finish, much closer to the factory finishes I wanted (third photo, showing a 4-facet grind) - on my first attempt. The Tormek is not fast, especially for roughing and heavier grinding. Initially, I set it up with a traditional Norton 3X bench grinder wheel, which worked very well (fourth photo). This is also my best photo of the overall setup, even though it isn't with a Tormek grinding wheel installed. I have since added a CBN 180 grit and diamond wheels at 320, 600, and 1200 grit which produce spectacular finishes. I have a 4000 grit Japanese wheel but have not used it on drills yet, but I have on knives and scissors.

I am very impressed with the Vevor, at least from watching the review videos. There are two aspects of the Tormek that are less than optimal, 1) visual alignment of the flutes relative (first step with the Vevor, on the left side) and 2) speed. Both of these are implemented much better with the Vevor, from what I can see on the review videos. I especially liked Tubelcain's view of the flute alignment setup, very positive (fifth photo). And quite clearly, the Vevor would be much faster. I am also very impressed with the Vevor ER collet chuck system and that it will go down to 3/32" diameter drills. The Tormek says it will go down to 1/8", but the clamping system does not function well with such small drills. I have worked around that by holding smaller drills in a pin chuck (sixth photo).
Anyone have a link to the Vevor, I went to the site and did a search under drill bit sharpener and got nothing related to a sharpener. The Vevor looks like an actual tool using an actual collet system and all the other advantages WoW I like it.
 
Anyone have a link to the Vevor, I went to the site and did a search under drill bit sharpener and got nothing related to a sharpener. The Vevor looks like an actual tool using an actual collet system and all the other advantages WoW I like it.
 

Thanks Rick,
Well I am sold after reading the posts about this unit and also kicking it around a few days.

Had some Vevor points, plus they sent me a coupon for an additional $12 off, and also the 25 piece set of ER 32 collets on sale for ~$52
so all in for $312.

I will probably keep the old Drill doctor since it will do up to a 3/4" bit.
 
Thanks Rick,
Well I am sold after reading the posts about this unit and also kicking it around a few days.

Had some Vevor points, plus they sent me a coupon for an additional $12 off, and also the 25 piece set of ER 32 collets on sale for ~$52
so all in for $312.

I will probably keep the old Drill doctor since it will do up to a 3/4" bit.
ER32 collet set for something else, correct? If I understood correctly, regular ER32 collets do not work with this machine as their orientation is reversed and sized similar to an ER20….
 
ER32 collet set for something else, correct? If I understood correctly, regular ER32 collets do not work with this machine as their orientation is reversed and sized similar to an ER20….
Depends on the size, I think. You are referring to the fact that these machines use the collets reversed, with the small end out and the large end in. In the 2mm - 13mm machine that I got, the three smallest sizes (2-3, 3-4 and 4-5mm) have large recesses in the large end and therefore the clamping surfaces are only at the small end. All the others up to the larges have full length clamping surfaces, from larger to small ends. No idea exactly why the large ends are hollowed out in the smaller sizes and I do not see why an ordinary small sized ER collet could not be used in the sharpening machine. It is clear, though, that ER collets from these machines that are hollowed out at the large end would not work in the ordinary ER collet chuck. Don't know if regular ER collets have full length bearing jaws in all sizes, but the CAD drawings I looked at from McMaster-Carr did not reveal any that appeared to have the recesses.

Part of my rationalization for getting the Vevor was for the ER20 collets, so that I could use them with my Craftsman 101.212 6" lathe, which has a spindle hole somewhere around 1/2". I figured to get "replacements" for the small collets that are hollowed out in the large end for that purpose. But, before I shelled out for those collets and a spindle mount collet chuck, I want to see if the Vevor collet chuck might be usable if held in the 4", 6-jaw chuck that I have for the 6" lathe.

This 6-jaw chuck is not adjustable, but I plan on making a backplate adaptor that will give it that adjustability. I did this for a 4" 3-jaw Bison chuck for the 7x14 minilathe that I started with in the early 2000s. The article I based this on is:

Greater Precision for Scroll Chucks by Richard Torgerson Machinists Workshop Vol. 1 No. 4 Aug-Sep 1988 (Link to MW Index)

I couldn't find a link directly to it, but I also know that it is in book one of "The Best of Projects In Metal" books by Village Press.

Final comment about using the drill sharpening machine ER collest for use in other applications. I am not impressed with the quality of the Vevor ER collets. They appear to be chrome plated so I can't tell if they were ground, as in precision ground, like I think "real" ER collets are and I am not confident in just how true/precise they will be for use on a lathe or mill. I am NOT looking for high precision on this lathe, though, just the ability to hold smaller diameters, below the gripping range of the 6-jaw. I have the Monarch 10EE and 5C collets if I need precision.

Rick

P.S. Just looked closer at the quoted text and see that there may a reference to the ER32 collets in the drill sharpening machines as being a different overall size from standard ER32 collets. Am I reading that statement correctly?
 
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ER32 collet set for something else, correct? If I understood correctly, regular ER32 collets do not work with this machine as their orientation is reversed

I actually ordered them for the lathe, but it would be nice if they are usable on the sharpener, but sounds like the answer is no.
 
I actually ordered them for the lathe, but it would be nice if they are usable on the sharpener, but sounds like the answer is no.
I missed seeing where it was said that the ER32s were of different outside sizes or angles than standard ER32 collets. It is clear that the Vevor and like machines use the collets in the reverse orientation, but so far I've not seen or read anything that says a standard ER collet doesn't fit the Vevor style collet chuck. I tried to point out above that the Vevor style collets in the smaller sizes don't have jaws that bear the full length of the collets, which would preclude using those collets in a standard ER collet chuck. But I see no reason the opposite is true, that standard ER collets cannot be used in the Vevor style collet chucks.

Below are drawings showing dimensions of ER20 and ER32 collets. I checked the drawing against the ER20s in my Vevor set and they match, at least close enough. No drawing or specs I've seen yet shows the inside geometry (but no images show them from the back either), so my assumption is that they are the nominal ID the full length.

If you have ordered both, you should be able to try them out and let us know.

ER20
ER20-Collet-Print_180.jpg

ER32
ER32-Collet-Print_180.jpg
 
I missed seeing where it was said that the ER32s were of different outside sizes or angles than standard ER32 collets. It is clear that the Vevor and like machines use the collets in the reverse orientation, but so far I've not seen or read anything that says a standard ER collet doesn't fit the Vevor style collet chuck. I tried to point out above that the Vevor style collets in the smaller sizes don't have jaws that bear the full length of the collets, which would preclude using those collets in a standard ER collet chuck. But I see no reason the opposite is true, that standard ER collets cannot be used in the Vevor style collet chucks.

Below are drawings showing dimensions of ER20 and ER32 collets. I checked the drawing against the ER20s in my Vevor set and they match, at least close enough. No drawing or specs I've seen yet shows the inside geometry (but no images show them from the back either), so my assumption is that they are the nominal ID the full length.

If you have ordered both, you should be able to try them out and let us know.

ER20
View attachment 479289

ER32
View attachment 479290
Thank you for the additional information. Would be cool to be able to compare what comes with the machine against normal collets.

I actually ordered them for the lathe, but it would be nice if they are usable on the sharpener, but sounds like the answer is no.
That is what I thought. Thanks.
 
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