Advice on shop build...

A

ArmyDoc

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Working on plans for a shop, and have a few questions. I had assumed I would do roll-ups for the doors, since that's what I did in the barn. On another thread, someone suggested bi-fold doors. They seem very nice, but about 30% more expensive. Worth it? What other options are there out there? What has been your experience?

Also, can someone talk to me about insulation? The options seem to be fiberglass batting style, spray foam insulation, and foam panels. I found one type of foam panel that has wood OSB on the inside. I was thinking about using this, since it would also provide the inside wall material at the same time. https://www.bestmaterials.com/SearchResult.aspx?KeyWords=insullam Anyone have experience with this?

Appreciate the input.
 
My old shop was 850 sqft and I did the spray foam. It worked well. Only down fall is it covers up all your conduit and plumbing so you cant get to it unless you dig it out. It also damages easily so I covered it with osb board all the way around the shop. The shop I am building now I am using regular fiberglass rolls. 6" in the roof and 4" on the sides. Both 12x12 doors are insulated also.
 
What kind of doors are you using, and what kind of insulation?
 
First, the link you provided to the OSB boards with the insulation attached seems to be incredibly expensive. My order of insulation is.... Closed cell spray foam, open cell spray foam, dense pack cellulose (no, it will not settle if you do it right), and lastly fiberglass batts. I could write paragraphs here explaining why one is better than the other but for brevity, that is my short list.
I built a new house and shop last fall. I was the general contractor and up in Northern Wisconsin, insulation is extremely important. The largest delta (ROI) for a new construction is insulation. It will pay itself back rather quickly, but more importantly, if done correctly your living space will FEEL better.
I did closed cell spray foam in my house. The contractor charged my $0.85 per "board" foot. That is a 12x12x1" area. So, to fill up my wall to the 5" or so cost me $5 per square foot of wall space. Yes, expensive but.... I spent $650 to heat my 3400 sq ft home last winter on LP, which is one of the more expensive sources of fuel.

I could have used fiberglass batts to do the walls, which is standard operating procedure, and it would have only cost me $0.31 per spuare foot of wall space, all the way out to the 5.5" of the wall cavity. However, my wall has an R value of 35 whereas the fiberglass has R-19 at best, if done correctly.

My new shop though I did fiberglass batts with sanded 5/8" thick plywood over the studs, that way I can hang stuff anywhere I want without finding a stud. Super, super nice to have that option. That plywood cost me about $15 per 4x8 sheet at Menards. The pre-made panels you linked are VERY expensive.
If you spray foam and are worried about wiring later and what not, run the wire in EMT conduit on the outside of the plywood. It can look nice if done correctly and easy to do.
 
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Thank you very much for the detailed reply. I used spray foam in my house, and have been happy with it. I read that in a metal building it wasn't as good because the metal tends to have condensation issues. I don't know if this is true, or merely a sales ploy.
If I build a 40x72x14 shed, I'm looking at~ 3100sqft for the walls, and another ~ 3000sqft for the roof. So 6250sqft to be safe. For spray foam, at $5/sq ft that 30,000 for insulation. Especially since I still need OSB boards arround the bottom. Granted OSB is only $15 each, I'd need ~ 56 to do the first floor, so another ~850. Can't swing it.
The insullam is $3.31 a sq ft, but includes the OSB. That's about the top of my budget. (trying to keep insulation under $7500)

Fiberglass and OSB is well under that, but is it the best option?

I've read about some closed cell radiant barrier products like this one: https://www.insulation4less.com/insulation4lessproduct-62-prodex-total-10m.aspx#fragment1 It's a little more than $1.50 a sq ft. Supposed to give R22? Not sure how it does this, I guess using dead space behind barrier?
 
ArmyDoc said:
I read that in a metal building it wasn't as good because the metal tends to have condensation issues. I don't know if this is true, or merely a sales ploy.
Click to expand...
Maybe a ploy. I never had any issues in mine.
 
Have you looked into SIP's. Structural insulated panels. They have OSB on both sides with foam in the middle. They come in a variety of widths starting at I believe 4 1/2". Construction goes very quickly. Here are some videos to give you an idea on how they go together.
 
The metal building and condensation should not be an issue. The factor that would affect it is of course the indoor air quality, such as moisture level in the air. You are in a different area of the country so I would assume cooling load is greater than heating load. Up here, if we have more than about 40% humidity in the winter, one can expect some moisture issues around windows and doors, but if a vapor barrier is properly applied, it should not be an issue. Speaking of vapor barrier, the closed cell foam is the vapor barrier so none needed.
If I were you, I would look at doing fiberglass batts, but making sure the installation is done properly. For example, if there are wires running through the walls, you must split the batts to go on both sides of the wires. Here is a good video on how to do it properly... This old house fiberglass install.

The bubble wrap type of product that you linked is, in my opinion, a scam. There are ways that they can claim their R-value, but it does not work in real world applications in my opinion.
 
The SIP panels would be a great option too.
Also ArmyDoc, I did not realize how big of a shop you were looking at. That thing is huge!
 
My shop is in a 40 x 96 pole barn. Shop occupies the front 40 x 32 with a 40 x 24 "annex". I used 6" kraft paper batts in the walls. Have 12" of batts in the ceiling (only have a ceiling over the shop area). The main outside door is a 16' slider which is 2 x 4 construction on the flats. That has 1 1/2" styrofoam in it and is my weak link. Doesn't seal well to the walls and can be a challenge to open in the winter.

If I was doing it again from scratch, I'd look at a roll up insulated door. My father in law has two in his shop. In my case, I don't open the slider much if at all in the winter. I've thought about remaking the slider to a 2x4 panel on edge to get some extra insulation. Or easier, just make some panels from styrofoam and attach them to the door in the winter.

My shop barn started life with a shingled roof, but was reroofed in steel. The steel is on synthetic tar paper over 7/16" osb. No condensation at all. The back 40x40 is a steel roof over perlins and there is a fair amount of condensation off it. There are drip spots on the dirt floor where the condensation runs off the perlins.

The insulated shop is very comfortable in the summer when it's 90F outside, gets up to maybe 80F. Annex is at 90+ so +1 on the insulation. I have two ceiling fans that run 24/7 in the shop and very little if any problems with rust. I'll be installing a 125,000 btu overhead heater by this fall.

Bruce
 
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