A few questions about my new to me South Bend 13"

[OldBlue56]

Hello, I recently acquired a South Bend 13 and have been working on basically refurbishing it. This is not a full restore by any means I would just like to get it up and running. This was given to me by a family member who's father had passed away and they just wanted it out of their shop. I of course gladly loaded it up and took it home. So I don't really have any knowledge of previous use/care or anything other than she told me he was a gunsmith and used it for that. Unfortunately after I got it home and started actually inspecting it I found the bed ways are what I would consider pretty severely worn, so it won't be the most accurate piece of machinery every. However it might still be good enough for me to learn on and make some non-critical parts.

What I do know is the number on the bed is 10761TKX14, so it is a 13", with quick change gear, friction feed apron, underneath motor drive and special spindle. The cross feed was completely locked up and the longitudinal feed was very sticky, so I decided I better just tear the thing down clean and fix up whatever needs to be done. For this task I purchased the ILION rebuild kit and manual.

I have come across some inconsistencies and questions I just can't seem to find a good answer for and am hoping maybe someone on here might have some insight.

1. The manual I have and every example I have found on the internet shows a keyway for an oil wick in the housing for the hand wheel shaft. My apron has no keyway or any way of providing lubrication for that shaft. Is this common and nothing to worry about or what do I need to do to get lubrication to that shaft?
2. The layout of the holes for the feed change lever appears to be different from all the examples I have come across (see notated picture). Not sure this makes any difference in anything just something I noticed.
3. The tail Stock has me somewhat baffled. As you can see from the picture it has no oilers of any kind on it where it should have one near the wheel and one on top for the quill (I think). It also does not have a cam lock design to lock the quill. On this one the handle is crewed down until the housing basically smashes the quill. Which on this is almost impossible to do by hand you would need a wrench or hammer to get this thing to lock, also probably the reason for all the what appears to be impact marks on the handle. This doesn't seem to be consistent with all the 13's I've seen. It does however measure correctly from the bed ways to the center of the quill. Any thoughts on this is this not that unusual or is this perhaps not the correct tail stock for the machine?

Forgive me if these are stupid simple questions. I am just learning on this thing and not knowing little things like this drives me nuts.

Cheers,
Brent

 

[SLK001]

Your serial number has the "X" in it, which signifies something "special" (your spindle doesn't look special). Perhaps the special part is an experimental apron. I agree that there should be the slot in the hole for the hand wheel. Since there's not, another method of providing it oil was devised. You'll have to investigate how oiling was accomplished. If you can't identify a method, you might want to broach a slot in the correct place.

Your tailstock doesn't look like a SB product (neither does the steady rest). If it is, there should be a number on the end on the very right. It might be under several layers of paint, so you might have to dig a little. The adjusting screws on your TS are just all wrong. You also might want to ask these question over on the SB forum on the PM site.

 

[markba633csi]

The tailstock "ram" is usually closely fitted to the body so it shouldn't require a lot of force to lock. If it is severely worn that may affect the locking action-
The steady rest definitely doesn't look like a SB part-
-M

 

[RandyWilson]

My 14 1/2 doesn't have the keyway wick for the carriage handwheel either. And it is quite worn. I'll have to bush it if I ever rebuild the saddle.

The detent hole position depends on the internal linkage. If yours works, it's correct.

That doesn't look to be a South Bend tailstock to me. Every one I've seen, admittedly not a wide sample, uses a flying wedge cam lock for the quill. I've never seen one that was a split clamp like that.

 

[sdelivery]

This is a 1940-41 Southbend 16 x 72 tool room precision.....
I will get another picture of the tailstock.....

 

[benmychree]

My 14 1/2 doesn't have the keyway wick for the carriage handwheel either. And it is quite worn. I'll have to bush it if I ever rebuild the saddle.

The detent hole position depends on the internal linkage. If yours works, it's correct.

That doesn't look to be a South Bend tailstock to me. Every one I've seen, admittedly not a wide sample, uses a flying wedge cam lock for the quill. I've never seen one that was a split clamp like that.

Nearly all that I have seen or owned has had the split clamping style of clamping the tailstock quill, to me it looks SB, the only difference is that the clamping lever looks to be turned steel rather than the typical cast iron clamping handle, I have never seen a SB with a cam style lock lever. Most all that I have experience with were from the early 1900s to around the WW-2 era.

 

[SLK001]

Nearly all that I have seen or owned has had the split clamping style of clamping the tailstock quill, to me it looks SB...

The 9's had the split clamping style, while the 10's and above had a split binding plug to lock the TS. That TS is not a SB part. The lathe looks to be a Frankenlathe, with the apron from a very early model.

 

[benmychree]

Perhaps the comment above that says that the "X" in the serial number means experimental might mean that any non standard feature noted here really may be untrue. Experimental= anything goes! I see SB in the tailstock, such as the bead formed on the part that screws into the back of the TS that carries the screw; I looked at the Vintage machinery site and saw several lathes with similar serial numbers that seem to indicate a manufacture date in the mid to later 1960s, but no pictures to study, I'm thinking that some of the differences such as the lack of lube points and the cheap tailstock quill clamp may be a cost cutting device I can't see the picture of the steady rest to see enough detail to form an opinion.

 

[SLK001]

Here's a copy of your build card. It shows that it shipped with the standard tailstock - the one you have isn't it. It shows a hardened bed, which is probably what the "X" is for. In 1967 a hardened bed was standard - not sure about 1965. It was also shipped as a turret lathe. Someone tossed the turret and just used it as an ordinary lathe.

The UNIT CODE for the carriage should be stamped at the top of the shifter indexing holes on the carriage. It should be A104T.

 

[OldBlue56]

Wow! Thanks for all the replies and excellent information.

The lathe looks to be a Frankenlathe, with the apron from a very early model.

This is exactly what I was afraid of and kind of coming to the same conclusion. Wouldn't surprise me a bit, but hopefully I can still make this thing somewhat useful.

I took a few additional close up pictures of the tailstock and steady rest. I couldn't find any numbers at all on the tailstock, but I might need to just do a bit more looking. I did however find a number stamped in the bed at the very end opposite the serial number (see picture 3). No idea what this would be.

So I guess the question is do I keep messing around with it and trying to make this thing usable or start parting out to build some cash reserves for a better large lathe? I think I would still like to do what I can with it and see how she works once all back together. Obviously don't want to be putting a bunch of money into it specially since I know the bed ways are badly worn near the headstock, but just toss it back together and see what I can get out of it. I mean I did get a far amount of tooling and two chucks with it and it is already wired up with a VFD that works, so I feel like I got to give it a shot. And best of all it was free other than time and fuel used to pick it up.

What's you guys opinions?