6x26 Harbor Freight mill vs 8x30 Grizzly mill

If you have your heart set on new, then I would go with the Grizzly over the HF, given those are the only two options you offered us to chose from.

However, I have to agree with Winegrower, for the money you will spend for the Grizzly, you could purchase a nice older, industrial unit.

But that is just me.
 
I have a Grizzly G-0678 which I had for over a year now, other than having a relay pop out of its socket its been a good machine. Here is what I can tell you, the machine is made in Taiwan, the castings and finish are very good, I found no flaws in the castings, the surface finishes on the bearing surfaces where also very good. What I like about the machine is you have 20" of spindle to table distance, I lived with a round column mill for years fighting with table to spindle distance. The VFD motor control is great, speed range is from 0 to 2,250 RPM even though Grizzly says 200 rpm is the minimum, I have had no problem with low end torque when using lower speeds. It can be taken apart and moved by one person, I took mine apart in the garage and I moved it piece by piece into my basement by myself. What I don't care for is that the lead screws are all .125 per revolution, one day I'll install a DRO till then I have to do some extra math. I had gone through the 6 x 26 or 8 x 30 am glad I went for the bigger machine.
 
Winegrower said:
This. I am amazed at how much people will spend for new and kind of crummy equipment, and deal with many start up problems, when for similar money older proven equipment is available, with accessories, manuals, other users, etc. Neither of these machines mentioned in the OP would be for me. I'm with Markba633csi. :)
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Old machines are old, and come with their own issues. I mostly have old US made machines and even those that were in very good condition required a not trivial amount of work before I could use them. In some cases shop infrastructure like needing to wire 240v or install a VFD to run a 3 ph motor, others required work to deal with wear or damage, incomplete machines etc. All required significant effort to move.

I'm sure some manage to acquire a vintage machine that is plug and play, but it seems most require some work.

The other part is actually finding the right machine vs being able to call up a business give them a credit card number and be done, no spending weeks, months, years scouring CL etc to find "the one". No having to deal with flakes or scammers, no having to extricate it from the current shop, then transporting it home, it just shows up in a crate in your driveway.

I think it is very easy to forget how intimidating buying and transporting a used machine can be to someone who doesn't have a lot of experience.


As I do have mostly vintage machinery now I fall on the side of you and Mark in personal preference, but I can certainly understand the attractions to buying new.
 
I started out with a Grizzly G0757Z mill (horizontal/vertical combo, about 2000 lbs) and a Grizzly G0752Z (10x22, about 450 lbs) lathe. Both fully loaded with bells and whistles (DRO and VFD/variable speed) and priced accordingly. For a learning from scratch, self-taught (or youtube taught) person, having something that just needed to be plugged in was not a bad thing. Unfortunately the lathe was a bit of a mess, several issues that I had to work through. I ended up doing a bit of hand scraping on the cross slide due to some really poor machining on those ways. I also had to remachine a new faceplate for the cross slide as the hole for the leadscrew/dial mount was out about .050, which caused the leadscrew to badly bind as the cross slide was retracted. The DRO cross slide axis never quite behaves right, took me a while to realize that it was the DRO and not me, so I have learned to use the dials and ignore that DRO axis, although the carriage works fine. So ultimately, the lathe turned out to be quite a learning experience, and not something "that just needed to be plugged in".

The mill has been less hassle. It did blow the VFD just last month (4 years old now?). Grizzly wanted around $950 dollars for a replacement VFD (a Delta E series), I was able to order one elsewhere for about $400, plus I had to buy the $20 programming display/panel. Presumably for what Grizzly charged it would have come pre-programmed, in addition to the display/panel, I spent a couple of hours messing around to get the parameters right.

Ultimately my experiences have led me to buying several older American "big iron" machines. 2 years ago I got a Monarch 12" CK (14x30), and in the last year I've added a Monarch 10EE and a 612, as well as an old K&T #3 vertical mill. All of those have/will take some work to get running. But in the end I'll have better machines. I wouldn't have been able to get the CK running without the Grizzly lathe, and the mill has gotten quite a bit of use too. So despite the problems I had, I think starting out with those machines wasn't a bad thing. But no amount of tuning or improving on them will ever get the rigidity and quality of some of the older used machines once they're fixed up. And all four of those old machines combined cost less than I paid for the two pieces of Grizzly equipment. I'm keeping the Grizzly mill, but the Grizzly lathe will get sold soon (a friend has already committed to buying it).
 
I don't have any preference for new or used. I would prefer American, European or Japanese iron, but my size and price limitations mean I mostly am looking at Taiwanese (preferred) or Chinese (last resort). I find it hard to justify $4000+ plus for the Grizzly so I've been leaning towards the Harbor Freight. I also saw this KBC 8x30, but that's even harder to justify for the price without a VFD. Harbor Freight does currently have a 10% off sale. Just listed on Craigslist is this South Bend 9 for $1100, but it's only a 3' bed, so 17" BTC and a change gear with no cross feed or keyed leadscrew with only a 3/4" spindle bore. I found this Millrite for $3000, down from $5000, with $850 SH. I offered $500 since it probably needs a complete rebuild, judging from the rust on the table and ways it was stored somewhere damp, so the motor is probably shot and the spindle is probably seized or needs new bearings, plus the leadscrews, knee gears, fine feed gears, etc... are probably shot, too. I also found this listing for 2 Rockwells and a 6x26. (Never mind, CNCparts1 is a well known scammer who uses the names of well known and respected sellers to sell junk machines he paints up all nice.)
 
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I think I'm going to go with the Harbor Freight for now. If I join Harbor Freight's buyer's club, I can get 20% off a single item, plus signing up for their credit card gives you 10% off your first purchase. So that would make it $1330. I figure if it turns out to not be very good or too small, at least I won't have too much money sunk into it, plus if I end up wanting something else, it'll give me something to use while I look for another mill. For the lathe, I'm going to stop by Interplant Sales this week and check out the lathes they have, they have a couple South Bends in my size/price range plus a Sheldon.
 
Back in the 1960's American labor was relatively cheap, albeit not as cheap as Chinese. 1960's machinery could be economically manufactured in the U.S. to standards not possible today. In order to meet realistic price points, almost everything has been farmed out to the Chinese. So this is the World we now live in.

Fortunately, the old U.S. lathes from South Bend, Clausing, Logan, Rockwell, Standard Modern, Hardinge, etc. were built like tanks, and are widely available, as are used parts. Lathes generally become worn in certain spots, which unless severe, won't affect 90% of the work done by hobbyists and small shop owners.

On a lathe, the bed is the only thing that can't reasonably be replaced. Fortunately, worn or damaged ways can be easily identified. Non-hardened ways develop ridges, nicks and dings, etc. Hardened and ground ways can have chunks knocked out of them. All easy to spot.

A lathe or milling machine that might cost tens of thousands of dollars if made in the U.S. today can be acquired for a fifth that amount.

I wonder how many Grizzly and Harbor Freight lathes will still be around sixty years from now, with parts readily available.
 
Mitch Alsup said:
Why is this even a question for people 68 YO and older ????
Why should we care what happens 40 years after we have died ??
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Some lathe shoppers are under age 68. Also, there are some who might reason that something that lasts for 60 years is better built than something that lasts a third that time.
 
Neurotic-Hapi-Snak said:
I think I'm going to go with the Harbor Freight for now. If I join Harbor Freight's buyer's club, I can get 20% off a single item, plus signing up for their credit card gives you 10% off your first purchase. So that would make it $1330. I figure if it turns out to not be very good or too small, at least I won't have too much money sunk into it, plus if I end up wanting something else, it'll give me something to use while I look for another mill. For the lathe, I'm going to stop by Interplant Sales this week and check out the lathes they have, they have a couple South Bends in my size/price range plus a Sheldon.
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I'm wondering if you got your mill, or if you are still deciding?
Dave
 
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