Why no small high-quality lathes?

[keithd]

I have an Enco 1024 which is just like that Jet. they also made a Jet 12x24 (and Enco).
Quite a few of those around. taiwanese, and they have the 2nd feed shaft, plus a true QCGB. It's a real lathe.

Be careful buying any new lathe under 12" swing. I haven't seen one that has a true QCGB. I was about to buy an 11" PM when I found out what looks like a QCGB is really some sort of hybrid that uses change gears. Deal-killer for me.

I'd be looking at the G4002 or G4003 Grizzly.

Sounds like solid advice.

There are several things to like about the 4002/3, but a couple things are very troubling to me. The first two may be show-stoppers

One is a top speed of 1400 RPM. That is not fast enough for turning aluminum or for using carbide tooling.

Another is that some gear changes are still required. That in itself is not a problem other than it requires access to the gearbox on the left, just like other gear-change machines. This adds 18" to the operating footprint of the lathe. Unless I put it on casters, which I hesitate to do with a half-ton lathe. And the lathe is already 53" long, which is at my upper limit even without the extra 18" access requirement.

And a pet annoyance is that it cannot turn an 11.5 TPI (garden hose) thread.

--
Keith

 

[keithd]

If you think you can build one and market it in that price range go for it. But most people looking for all of those features also wan't something bigger. And there is 14x40's out there. So I think you would be hard prest to sale enough to recoup the start up cost.

Just my thoughts.

Marty

Well, I wasn't seriously considering going into the business of building lathes.

I was just saying that a company in this business could put all competing lathes out of business by simply designing the lathe I have in mind and offering it at whatever price allows a profit margin no less that what they currently get on the sub-par lathes they currently offer.

While many people wanting the features I want may also want larger size, I'd bet there are many people with space constraints like mine. I don't see any reason why people with space constraints would be inclined to want fewer features.

--
Keith

 

[7HC]

If a company built a lathe like Keith is describing (and some of them have come close) they would get my money in a heartbeat. After seeing some of the options I'm already convinced the PM1127VF would be the next lathe I buy because as far as I can see it's the best value for my dollar. I think the problem is people would still buy other brands of lathes for various reasons. If everyone was as specific about what they wanted and expected from a purchase as Keith was, this holy grail of lathes would already be available.

Shawn

If such a comprehensively featured lathe existed, then I expect that there would be a small number of people who would purchase one because they would pay whatever it took to get the features they wanted.
i also think that the majority of other potential customers would look elsewhere for a similar quality lathe that lacked some of the top of the line features, because it would be considerably cheaper and would represent, for them, a much better value.

Most people would like the features that Keith actually requires, but Keith is prepared to pay a much higher price to get what he wants, whereas most people can't justify that higher cost, hence the lack of 'holy grail' specification lathes in the marketplace.


M

 

[kd4gij]

The major factor here eny of the lathes mentiond here can me CNC'd and give every thing Keith is looking for and alot more. That is the trend these days. Just look at Bench top machines on CNC Zone and see what people are getting out of these smaller machines.

 

[george wilson]

The WT lathe linked to very early in this thread is the same as my Jet 1024. Except,mine was Taiwan. The WT is no doubt Chinese. It means 10" swing,24" between centers. Most Asian lathes have numbers that indicate swing and length between centers.

 

[MSD0]

If you live in the Bay Area, you should consider Wabeco. There is a very reputable dealer in Gilroy:
http://www.mdaprecision.com/

I was in the same situation as you (though I see many more nice looking used machines on Craigslist now than I did when I was shopping), and bought a new Wabeco D3000E from MDA about 6 years ago. It wasn't cheap (over $3k) but the thing that pushed me over the edge was that I could drive to Gilroy, look at my new machine, and take it home (or not). No shipping and no uncertainty about what condition a freighted tool will arrive in. There is also A Wabeco board on Yahoo hosted by MDA. MDA is great, but I should also say that just sold my D3000E (for about half what I paid for it) after finding a nice Maximat V10P in Oakland.

I was looking a Wabeco D6000E from MDA (also in Bay Area), but had a hard time justifying the price and ended up with a PM1127vf-lb. The Wabeco was going to be close to $12K vs $4K for the PM with options (DRO, collet chuck, etc.). I'm sure there's a big difference in fit and finish, but the PM does everything I need it to do.

 

[Charles Spencer]

Derbyshire lathes:

http://www.fwderbyshireinc.com/

Blackstone, Massachusetts.

 

[Wreck™Wreck]

There are high quality small lathes available, they are simply well outside of your price range, as I have mentioned in the past there is no middle ground.
You have the choice of a $25,000 lathe or a $2500.00 lathe, make the choice. There is no market for a $10,000 12 X 24 engine lathe with all of the bells and whistles that you require in the hobby/home market, if you on insist on a very high quality manual lathe at all costs just ignore the cost and buy a Hardinge Tool Room lathe.

I just solved your problem.

This would fit the bill perfectly. Hardinge HLV made in 1977, 10 X 18, $18900.00

https://www.machinetools.com/en/for...sZS9tYWNoaW5lcy90eXBlL3ByZWNpc2lvbi1sYXRoZXM=

 

[Tony Wells]

Just a general observation. If there was indeed a viable market for such a machine, the Holy Grail of small lathes, at a low price, rest assured it would exist. The fact that apparently it does not tells me that there simply isn't a market for it. People who have the job of sitting around crunching numbers around design constraints are professionals at their own craft. If there was profit in it, they would be in a position to know. Since again, no such lathe is on the market, even with access to the lowest cost of production of machine tools the world has likely ever seen, I believe the demand is just not there. It's a simple business decision, and sorry Keith, you lose on this one. Besides, the number of individuals like Keith who says he would pay additional for these niceties has to be minuscule, or the marketing people would know. It's their job to know.

Bottom line, you have to compromise somewhere. There are no perfect machines. Close maybe, close enough, of course.....but perfect, no.

 

[Wreck™Wreck]

Well stated Tony, in a nutshell no enterprise can make a profit in a market that does not exist.

If the hobby machinist community wanted quality equipment someone would exploit that market, however it doesn't so others have stepped in to fill the gap between the high end and the dirt cheap, the dirt cheap won this battle lasting the last generation or two. One unfortunate consequence of this is that many people younger then say 60 will have never seen a high end manual lathe let alone run one. Time passes.