Wells-Index 847 Milling Machine - Ownership Thread

[wachuko]

Took a few days off work to see if I can get these tasks finished...

So I will reuse the housing of the stock switch... but only as a terminal block to hold the wires from the motor and those that go from there to the VFD... I will remove the handle to the switch.

Because I do not want to move the machine from its current location for now... I need to get a longer cable to run to the receptacle.

 

[wachuko]

Okay... mind you, all this is temporary. I need a place to install the VFD permanently. Right now I just wanted to bring this puppy to life...

As I mentioned previously, using the stock switch as terminal block. Connected to what I am assuming - from left to right -> T1 (white), T2 (red), T3 (black)



That got connected to the VFD... Yellow cable is input from the house 220Volts single phase. I was able to secure the VFD using some existing 10-24 threaded holes in the column.



What do you say we give it some juice? I have to be honest... I was scared I was going to burn up the motor, the VFD, or worse... Father-in-law was next to the breaker box ready to kill it all...



But it worked! Well... it got power... Now I need to go over the manual to learn how to program it.



All I did to test was to raise that 5 to 55... and hit run... it ramped up and motor started to spin, in reverse Instructions said to just swap two wires... So I swapped T1 with T3 and voila! It is running in the correct direction. Having had such a success, decided to end the day on that high note...

Nothing else works... the potentiometer on the unit seems like it is not enable... there is a strange whine when it reached 55... From videos, all of this is related to programming... Now to open the manual and start sorting this out. But happy as heck...

 

[Steve-F]

Congratulations!! I love those Braun flashlights too, they are awesome!

 

[paulymorph]

So I will reuse the housing of the stock switch... but only as a terminal block to hold the wires from the motor and those that go from there to the VFD... I will remove the handle to the switch.

Because I do not want to move the machine from its current location for now... I need to get a longer cable to run to the receptacle.

Hi @wachuko. So i'm new to this thread but spend 90 minutes reading the entire thing last night. I regret that I wasn't along for the ride from the beginning as I could've shared some of my experiences along the way because I also have a Wells-Index model 847 although mine is with the variable speed head. Purchased in March of 2020, days before the pandemic started (gave me something to do during all that)...

Like you, I had/have a lot of things I wanted to improve on it. First, a VFD to power it, then new scales and DRO. Powerfeed on the X only for me. Thought about the knee but I have a drill handy with an attachment I turned on my Grizzly G0752 lathe, and it raises/lowers super fast and I don't find it too distracting to do it that way for now at least. After powering it I turned my attention to building a power draw bar. I took inspiration from many different YT vids and ultimately fabricated my own. Ultimately it wasn't too difficult, I just put some thinking into the design over a couple of weeks. I modeled the design in Fusion 360 and then machined it to life. Here's an album with some pics/vids. https://photos.app.goo.gl/FR1kjq9TH2HPJY3h9

As for the VFD, I chose this one from Factorymation.com. https://www.factorymation.com/TD200-2002-1PH. I have the 2 HP Doerr motor and factorymation sales support confirmed it met all the specs for the motor. I has worked perfect for 2 years now and no complaints. I wired a 3 way switch to it to control fwd and reverse to compensate when I change from High to Low. Like you, I took off the on/off hanging bar but left the original power switch on the side of the head as I like the way it looks. But I wired through it to the VFD and control the power with the 3 way switch I mounted by the VFD on the right side of the machine on an extended arm/platform that my mill came with. I still plan on putting a more robust switch along with an E-Stop on but haven't gotten around to it yet. One item I debated with myself when purchasing the VFD was whether to buy one that had the ability to use an external braking resistor. At some level I wish that I had however I was able to program my VFD to ramp down the speed to off over a 2 second timespan when I turn the motor off. At almost any speed my VFD is able to complete the ramp down in that timeframe. When I tried any shorter time span it would work at slower RPMs but at higher speeds it would trip the overvoltage safety in the VFD. As far as I know this doesn't hurt the VFD and just required me to recycle the power each time that happened. So I settled on two seconds which is fine for me. You'll find such a feature on almost any VFD and the interesting thing is if you use it you really can't use your brake as the VFD is actually powering down the motor through that time period. If you apply the brake during the ramp down, you can actually cause an over voltage spike. I can also disable this feature altogether which simply allows the motor to coast to a stop. This is when I would use the brake but at the moment my brake pads are quite worn and would cost around $140 for a new set from Wells.

The most significant thing I had to do was to replace the spindle bearings. About a year after I had been using it and was starting to get more in tune with the tolerances of the machine I started taking measurements and unfortunately noticed that I had 2 1/2 thou (.0025) run out at the base of the spindle. I could actually move the spindle by hand with an endmill mounted (not powered of course). So I ultimately decided to have Wells replace the bearing and the reground the R8 inside taper as well. Got it back and the runout was at 2 tenths (.0002) which is right at or better than the spec so this was quite a relief. It cost ~$900 but shipping was $150 of that...

Lastly (for now), I have just completed removal of the head and pulled all of the auto-down feed gears and cleaned then reassembled. I recorded as much of the process as I could and am still in the process of editing the footage into something I could post as a reference to others down the road.

Here's another general album of pics of mine. Just a big dumping ground of photos/vids... https://photos.app.goo.gl/2M6m6PnXpJrghHnw9

 

[paulymorph]

it ramped up and motor started to spin, in reverse Instructions said to just swap two wires...

ok, and an immediate followup. ha ha. You'll find as you begin reading the docs on the VFD that you can and will likely want to reverse the motor using the VFD. This is where the 3-way switch that I mentioned in my previous post comes in. So while swapping the wires made it turn in the direction you want, the VFD can electronically swap the wires to turn the motor in the other direction which is the same thing the physical switch on the mill does manually. VFDs are just awesome! Another decision may end up grappling with is whether to use the VFD to control the speed of the spindle. I think there are lots of debates in the forums on this subject. One side will say to put the belts in the optimal mid-range position for torqe and then adjust the frequency using the potentiometer to adjust the speed. Most if not all VFDs can ramp the frequency from 0 to 120 Hz (double the standard frequency of power in NA). The other argument is to use the standard 60 Hz and to control the speeds natively on the machin with the belts or in my case the variable speed belts. That is what I chose to do as I really love the manual feel of handle to alter the speeds... I just have the VFD ramp up and down as described in my previous post as well...

 

[woodchucker]

Hi @wachuko. So i'm new to this thread but spend 90 minutes reading the entire thing last night. I regret that I wasn't along for the ride from the beginning as I could've shared some of my experiences along the way because I also have a Wells-Index model 847 although mine is with the variable speed head. Purchased in March of 2020, days before the pandemic started (gave me something to do during all that)...

Like you, I had/have a lot of things I wanted to improve on it. First, a VFD to power it, then new scales and DRO. Powerfeed on the X only for me. Thought about the knee but I have a drill handy with an attachment I turned on my Grizzly G0752 lathe, and it raises/lowers super fast and I don't find it too distracting to do it that way for now at least. After powering it I turned my attention to building a power draw bar. I took inspiration from many different YT vids and ultimately fabricated my own. Ultimately it wasn't too difficult, I just put some thinking into the design over a couple of weeks. I modeled the design in Fusion 360 and then machined it to life. Here's an album with some pics/vids. https://photos.app.goo.gl/FR1kjq9TH2HPJY3h9

As for the VFD, I chose this one from Factorymation.com. https://www.factorymation.com/TD200-2002-1PH. I have the 2 HP Doerr motor and factorymation sales support confirmed it met all the specs for the motor. I has worked perfect for 2 years now and no complaints. I wired a 3 way switch to it to control fwd and reverse to compensate when I change from High to Low. Like you, I took off the on/off hanging bar but left the original power switch on the side of the head as I like the way it looks. But I wired through it to the VFD and control the power with the 3 way switch I mounted by the VFD on the right side of the machine on an extended arm/platform that my mill came with. I still plan on putting a more robust switch along with an E-Stop on but haven't gotten around to it yet. One item I debated with myself when purchasing the VFD was whether to buy one that had the ability to use an external braking resistor. At some level I wish that I had however I was able to program my VFD to ramp down the speed to off over a 2 second timespan when I turn the motor off. At almost any speed my VFD is able to complete the ramp down in that timeframe. When I tried any shorter time span it would work at slower RPMs but at higher speeds it would trip the overvoltage safety in the VFD. As far as I know this doesn't hurt the VFD and just required me to recycle the power each time that happened. So I settled on two seconds which is fine for me. You'll find such a feature on almost any VFD and the interesting thing is if you use it you really can't use your brake as the VFD is actually powering down the motor through that time period. If you apply the brake during the ramp down, you can actually cause an over voltage spike. I can also disable this feature altogether which simply allows the motor to coast to a stop. This is when I would use the brake but at the moment my brake pads are quite worn and would cost around $140 for a new set from Wells.

The most significant thing I had to do was to replace the spindle bearings. About a year after I had been using it and was starting to get more in tune with the tolerances of the machine I started taking measurements and unfortunately noticed that I had 2 1/2 thou (.0025) run out at the base of the spindle. I could actually move the spindle by hand with an endmill mounted (not powered of course). So I ultimately decided to have Wells replace the bearing and the reground the R8 inside taper as well. Got it back and the runout was at 2 tenths (.0002) which is right at or better than the spec so this was quite a relief. It cost ~$900 but shipping was $150 of that...

Lastly (for now), I have just completed removal of the head and pulled all of the auto-down feed gears and cleaned then reassembled. I recorded as much of the process as I could and am still in the process of editing the footage into something I could post as a reference to others down the road.

Here's another general album of pics of mine. Just a big dumping ground of photos/vids... https://photos.app.goo.gl/2M6m6PnXpJrghHnw9

man those support screws look lost on that casting. what size screws are those?

Looks like the action on your power draw bar is tight when it rides on the 2 rods, it didn't look like it came back up in the first video. nice work.

 

[wachuko]

ok, and an immediate followup. ha ha. You'll find as you begin reading the docs on the VFD that you can and will likely want to reverse the motor using the VFD. This is where the 3-way switch that I mentioned in my previous post comes in. So while swapping the wires made it turn in the direction you want, the VFD can electronically swap the wires to turn the motor in the other direction which is the same thing the physical switch on the mill does manually. VFDs are just awesome! Another decision may end up grappling with is whether to use the VFD to control the speed of the spindle. I think there are lots of debates in the forums on this subject. One side will say to put the belts in the optimal mid-range position for torqe and then adjust the frequency using the potentiometer to adjust the speed. Most if not all VFDs can ramp the frequency from 0 to 120 Hz (double the standard frequency of power in NA). The other argument is to use the standard 60 Hz and to control the speeds natively on the machin with the belts or in my case the variable speed belts. That is what I chose to do as I really love the manual feel of handle to alter the speeds... I just have the VFD ramp up and down as described in my previous post as well...

Hi @wachuko. So i'm new to this thread but spend 90 minutes reading the entire thing last night. I regret that I wasn't along for the ride from the beginning as I could've shared some of my experiences along the way because I also have a Wells-Index model 847 although mine is with the variable speed head. Purchased in March of 2020, days before the pandemic started (gave me something to do during all that)...

Like you, I had/have a lot of things I wanted to improve on it. First, a VFD to power it, then new scales and DRO. Powerfeed on the X only for me. Thought about the knee but I have a drill handy with an attachment I turned on my Grizzly G0752 lathe, and it raises/lowers super fast and I don't find it too distracting to do it that way for now at least. After powering it I turned my attention to building a power draw bar. I took inspiration from many different YT vids and ultimately fabricated my own. Ultimately it wasn't too difficult, I just put some thinking into the design over a couple of weeks. I modeled the design in Fusion 360 and then machined it to life. Here's an album with some pics/vids. https://photos.app.goo.gl/FR1kjq9TH2HPJY3h9

As for the VFD, I chose this one from Factorymation.com. https://www.factorymation.com/TD200-2002-1PH. I have the 2 HP Doerr motor and factorymation sales support confirmed it met all the specs for the motor. I has worked perfect for 2 years now and no complaints. I wired a 3 way switch to it to control fwd and reverse to compensate when I change from High to Low. Like you, I took off the on/off hanging bar but left the original power switch on the side of the head as I like the way it looks. But I wired through it to the VFD and control the power with the 3 way switch I mounted by the VFD on the right side of the machine on an extended arm/platform that my mill came with. I still plan on putting a more robust switch along with an E-Stop on but haven't gotten around to it yet. One item I debated with myself when purchasing the VFD was whether to buy one that had the ability to use an external braking resistor. At some level I wish that I had however I was able to program my VFD to ramp down the speed to off over a 2 second timespan when I turn the motor off. At almost any speed my VFD is able to complete the ramp down in that timeframe. When I tried any shorter time span it would work at slower RPMs but at higher speeds it would trip the overvoltage safety in the VFD. As far as I know this doesn't hurt the VFD and just required me to recycle the power each time that happened. So I settled on two seconds which is fine for me. You'll find such a feature on almost any VFD and the interesting thing is if you use it you really can't use your brake as the VFD is actually powering down the motor through that time period. If you apply the brake during the ramp down, you can actually cause an over voltage spike. I can also disable this feature altogether which simply allows the motor to coast to a stop. This is when I would use the brake but at the moment my brake pads are quite worn and would cost around $140 for a new set from Wells.

The most significant thing I had to do was to replace the spindle bearings. About a year after I had been using it and was starting to get more in tune with the tolerances of the machine I started taking measurements and unfortunately noticed that I had 2 1/2 thou (.0025) run out at the base of the spindle. I could actually move the spindle by hand with an endmill mounted (not powered of course). So I ultimately decided to have Wells replace the bearing and the reground the R8 inside taper as well. Got it back and the runout was at 2 tenths (.0002) which is right at or better than the spec so this was quite a relief. It cost ~$900 but shipping was $150 of that...

Lastly (for now), I have just completed removal of the head and pulled all of the auto-down feed gears and cleaned then reassembled. I recorded as much of the process as I could and am still in the process of editing the footage into something I could post as a reference to others down the road.

Here's another general album of pics of mine. Just a big dumping ground of photos/vids... https://photos.app.goo.gl/2M6m6PnXpJrghHnw9

Paul, so grateful you chimed in. I really appreciate everyone's feedback and suggestions, those have helped me a lot. But it is so great to be able to bounce stuff with someone that has the same (or almost the same) machine. Just to validate what is normal and what needs attention.

I made a few parameter changes on the VFD this morning and this is running great now. All weird noises/whistles/whines are gone!

These are the settings I changed:

Control Method -> Code: 00-00 -> From VF mode (0) to SLV mode (1)
Main Frequency Source Selection -> Code: 00-05 -> From Keypad (0) to Potentiometer on Keypad (1)
Frequency Upper Limit -> Code: 00-12 -> Set to 60.00Hz
Frequency Lower Limit -> Code: 00-13 -> Set to 10.00Hz
Acceleration Time -> Code: 00-14 -> Set to 5 seconds
Deceleration Time -> Code: 00-15 -> Set to 5 seconds
Carrier Frequency -> Code: 11-01 -> From 5 to 16 kHz
Carrier Mode Selection -> Code: 11-02 -> From Mode1, 2-Phase PWM modulation (1) to Mode0 3-Phase PWM modulation (0)

I just need to learn what else needs to be configured and if I need to further tune the ones I already set...

I want a remote pendant/control panel... so I can have the VFD safely placed away from any debris/chips/fluids....

I just can't express how happy I am to see it running and with the noise from those pulley bearings gone!!

Now that I have all the correct grease types needed, I want to remove the spindle and go over the grease in there...

 

[wachuko]

@paulymorph one question I had... how much effort is it to pull down on the spindle??

Here, take a look... I think this should be a smoother operation... but I have no idea where to start... I did take out the spindle and everything looked great inside... The resistance on mine has to come from somewhere else...

 

[woodchucker]

@paulymorph one question I had... how much effort is it to pull down on the spindle??

Here, take a look... I think this should be a smoother operation... but I have no idea where to start... I did take out the spindle and everything looked great inside... The resistance on mine has to come from somewhere else...

The quill lock????

edit: remove the quill lock knob, unscrew it. I'll bet it's squeezing the nuts too tight . Did you try to move it while everything was removed off the spindle housing itself? Was it more free?

 

[wachuko]

The quill lock????

edit: remove the quill lock knob, unscrew it. I'll bet it's squeezing the nuts too tight . Did you try to move it while everything was removed off the spindle housing itself? Was it more free?

Quill lock is loose... but I can take it out and check that... would be nice if it was something that simple.

When the spindle was out, yes, to make sure the spring was wound before reinserting...

If that does not solve it, I will remove the spindle again and check everything... I have to grease all that inside anyway...