Updated opinions PM vs Grizzly

[Mogar]

Sorry for being long winded.
Looking for general opinions on G0709 vs PM-1236 (I’d like to say PM-1236GT but that is $3k I cannot justify the cost, I’m not a machine shop). Here is what PM had to say, for their gears.

• The PM-1236T does NOT have hardened gears in the Head Stock but DOES have hardened gears in the Feed Box.
• The PM-1236 has hardened gears in BOTH the Head Stock and Feed Box.
• The PM-1340GT has hardened gears in BOTH the Head Stock and Feed Box.
• The PM-1440GT has hardened gears in BOTH the Head Stock and Feed Box.
• PM-1440E-LBE, PM-1440-2SM, PM-1440-2V has hardened and ground gears.

Grizzly said for G0709, the gears are flame hardened.
I’m leaning towards PM-1236 if I do anything, because of warranty and reported service.

I’m currently restoring a Sheldon 13” tool room lathe with a 70” bed (don’t’ know centers yet). I’m in the home stretch. I’ve been posting videos to YouTube mostly for my record of the work I’ve put into the restoration. I’ve replaced every bearing and bushing. I’ve machined a new brass reverse gear. I’ve also machined a few other parts that needed to be replaced. I’m leaning towards selling the Sheldon when I’m done. The bed has some expected wear at the chuck; more than I’m willing to live with. I do not have a follower or the steady rest.

I also have a G0602 with DRO. With rigidity upgrades to the compound. I would also put this on the chopping block.

These two lathes would be part of the capital for a new lathe, if I do anything. I’m just a hobbyist and do not need a 4000 LBS machine, let alone have the means to get it into a basement piece by piece; cut me some slack, I do not have a garage yet. I may change jobs and move soon, so that could get me a garage.

I would prefer to stay with the enclosed gear boxes on a new lathe. If anyone has recommendations for a selling price for the Sheldon let me know. I already have a good idea on the price for G0602 already.

Yes, I have read all the reviews for both the PM and the Grizzly, however all those reviews are prior to 2020. So, I’m looking for more up to date comments, considering how things change over time.

Thanks ahead of time.
Compare list below.

​	G0709​	PM1236​
MOTOR​	2HP 220V1PH​	2HP 220V1PH​
SWING​	14​	12​
GAP SWING​	​	17.688​
SWING OVER CROSS SLIDE​	8.688​	7​
BED WIDTH​		7.062​
DISTANCE BETWEEN CENTERS​	40​	36​
SPINDLE BORE​	1.57(40MM)​	1.5​
SPINDLE BORE​	D1-5​	D1-4​
SPINDLE TAPER​	MT#5​	MT#5​
SPINDLE LENGTH​		15.625​
RPM​	70-2000 (X8)​	65-1810 (X18)​
FEED ROD CLUTCH​	Y​	Y​
TRUE PITCH LEAD SCREW​		Y​
TAILSTOCK TAPER​	MT#3​	MT#3​
TAILSTOCK TRAVEL​	3.937​	4​
SHIPPING WEIGHT​	1550​	1250​
FREIGHT​	$449​	$399​
CARRIAGE TRAVEL​	36​	30.5​
CROSS SLIDE TRAVEL​	6.688​	6.125​
COMPOND TRAVEL​	3.938​	3.25​
TPI​	4-112​	4-60 (36)​
MM THREAD​	0.1-7​	0.4-7 (32)​
LEFT HAND THREADS​	Y​	Y​
3 JAW​	Y​	Y​
4 JAW​	Y​	Y​
FACE PLATE​	11"​	10"​
STEADY REST​	Y​	Y​
FOLLOWER REST​	Y​	Y​
SPLASH GUARD​	Y​	Y​
QCTP​	Y​	Y​
PULL OUT CHIP PAN​	Y​	N​
1/2" DRILL CHUCK WITH ARBOR​	Y​	N​
WARRANTY​	1YR​	3YR​
DRO​	N​	Y​
COOLING SYSTEM​	Y​	Y​
BASE​	Y​	Y​
FOOT BREAK​	Y​	Y​
LAMP​	Y​	Y​
MICROMETER CARRIAGE STOP​	N​	Y​
IN/MM DIALS​	N​	Y​
HARDENED GEAR TRAIN​	Y​	Y​
GROUND GEAR TRAIN​	N​	Y​
TAPERED SPINDLE BEARING​	Y​	Y​
CAST IRON STAND​	N​	N​
​		​
PRICE/CONFIG PRICE​	6595​	5999​
TOTAL W/ FREIGHT​	$7,044​	$6,398​

 

[wnchstrtnfldvlle]

Just looking at the comparison, PM has the true pitch lead screw, DRO, 3-year warranty (vs 1-year), and is 700 dollars cheaper to your door. It only loses with the pull-out chip pan, the drill chuck, and swing. A lot of people like to purchase their own accessories, and will you ever chuck up something with those extra 2" of swing? So really, just the pull-out chip pan. I would also add that the PM customer service is top notch. Yes, it's only a parts warranty, but with my gearbox issues they initially reimbursed me the parts, supplies, and some extra tooling for my troubles since it was a new lathe. Then, when I was having trouble with assembly they accepted shipment of the gearbox, then did the labor free of charge to help me. They even paid for return shipping when I offered to pay it. You can't replace that type of customer service.

I should add they worked on it during free time, so it was a little bit of a wait. But I wouldn't have expected differently.

 

[G-ManBart]

As far as the Sheldon goes it's hard to say without seeing it and knowing all that comes with it. I've sold two 13" Sheldons in the last couple of years. The last one had a 56" bed, so 36" between centers. It had a telescopic taper attachment, 3J chuck, 4-jaw chuck, collet adapter, collet closer, collet stand, micrometer carriage stop, threading dial, QCTP with half a dozen holders and a few tools, lantern tool post, a small pile of HSS blanks, multi-fix carriage stop and probably a couple of other things I can't recall. I think I sold it for $2700 or $2800 and it was a super clean machine with limited bed wear and backlash on the handles.

I'd lean PM over Grizzly just based on customer service reputation if nothing else. The extra weight of the Grizzly won't make it easier to get into a basement!

 

[coolidge]

Well if you want a new turnkey lathe you can just plug in and use, that's not a G0709.

I bought a G0709 2 months ago. It's both a fantastic lathe in some respects and quite pathetic and embarrassing in others. Real mixed bag of brilliant and lame in a single package. But I knew that going in. That's why it's about $2k less than other 1440 lathes. PM me for particulars good and bad if interested.

By the way there's no removable gap, Grizzly did away with that. "No Gap" was printed right on the crate of mine.

 

[verbotenwhisky]

The PM1236 is a solid machine, the gear box is a bit chunky in the way that the old non-synchronized manual transmissions use to be (no, I am not trying to shift on the fly its just that feel to it), but that is the worst of it in my opinion, the rest is fit and finish and dealing with PM makes it even better.

 

[mksj]

A lot more lathe with the G0709. Hardened gears would not be needed for hobbyist applications, nice but wouldn't drive decision not to buy the lathe. Numbers do not tell you much, it is more based on what you want to do and needs. Lathes models rarely change, so prior reviews still apply if same model. Any significant changes usually have a new model numbers. Exceptions may be source of electrical components based on sourcing at the time built.

 

[Mogar]

Thanks for all the comments so far.

By the way there's no removable gap, Grizzly did away with that. "No Gap" was printed right on the crate of mine.

I would think that would be false advertisement, as it is advertised with a gap.

I had seen a video on youfool where a person was finding fine metal particulate in his head stock oil. After seeing it was the PM-1236T and noting that model does not have hardened gears, was a warning to me. If the particulate gets into the spindle bearings that will be a problem. In the video the user placed bar magnets through out the head stock to help mitigate the particulate. Magnets can only suck up so much metal before the magnetic field cannot grab any more.

The PM1236 is a solid machine, the gear box is a bit chunky in the way that the old non-synchronized manual transmissions use to be

Cannot be any worse than the G0702 gear box?

I've also seen a video where a user had excessive gear noise from a lathe head stock, I think it was a PDM brand. He went through several weight oils and finally end with automotive rear differential oil, which is very thick and heavy. There was drastic difference in noise over the lathe manufacture's recommended oil and the differential oil. Has anyone else done this?

 

[Eddyde]

FWIW, I had a very negative experience with Grizzly, I know some have had good ones but most seem to echo Coolidge, it's mixed. On the other hand, I have heard mostly very good things about PM machines and their service.

 

[coolidge]

I would think that would be false advertisement, as it is advertised with a gap.

Where? I don't see it advertised with a gap anywhere on their website. Also you listed both lathes has having a gap of 17.688 which makes no sense since one is a 12 inch swing and the other 14 inch. Just saying, I think you made an oops.

 

[Mogar]

I don't see it advertised with a gap anywhere on their website.

That is a really good question... I remember when I made that chart I had to look at it twice because it was the same as the PM. I went back and reviewed the web site and the manual, now I cannot find it. So, unless there was an update to the manual and web site in the last three weeks, I might have been looking at another Grizzly. When I made that chart I had the Grizzly and the PM side by side. Kind of makes me second guess the rest of the stats.

Interesting that the bed parts list for the Grizzly list a "Gap Rack" and you can see it in all the photos.

Anyhow, thanks for pointing it out.