Trying to size a first mill

[WobblyHand]

One more thing. Whatever mill you end up buying, do not get this vice for it. It is the worst designed PoS ever made.
You will be so frustrated trying to adjust it.

It's a pretty good vise. Probably need to replace the screw with one about 5-10 mm longer. On mine, I replaced the screw with a piece of all-thread and made a custom nut with standoff on my mill. A tool makers vise is pretty rigid. Jaw lift on mine was only 0.0005". If I need to do something precise, I use it.

 

[Aaron_W]

I agree with Aaron. Sherline machines sell before the ink dries on the ad.

Aaron, I remember when you first joined HM and were looking at your first Sherline machine. I just noticed the list of machines you've accumulated in your short time in this hobby and it is really, really impressive! Many of us have been bitten by the machining bug but you've been chewed up and spit out!

As I read through this thread today, I recall @DavidR8 when he first started out. He said he just didn't have any room, just like our OP here. Remember that? Then he did a full remodel of his shop and outdid most of us here! @krby, you have been warned - hang around here and you're going to get bitten!

I have to say that watching you guys come along has been a real privilege. Our hobby and HM has grown so much and so fast and it will be guys like Aaron and David (and many others I could name) that carry things forward. I'm really happy about that.

Yeah it is a little insane, I blame Craig and his damn list.

 

[mikey]

I have had other hobbies like that. Honestly, if I really really end up loving this, a rented shop space wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. But not affordable right now. My wife would be happy to have the home workbench only for home projects and not the various electronics-related crap that sits on it now. Oooh....finally I could have enough space to stock all the wire and fasteners I want!

I am warning you now so don't say nobody ever told you this.

Hobby machining is NOT about machining as much as it is about improving or extending your self-reliance, capabilities, self-confidence and knowledge about a vast array of stuff. In other words, it makes you feel good about yourself and what you can do (compared to other mere mortals who are not machinists) and that is what sucks you in.

You will find this hobby to be one of the best ways to deposit money on a shelf so that it is not usable for anything else. There are countless rotary tables, dividing heads, super-spacers, tilting angle tables, sine tables and many other devices that are currently sitting on shelves right now; they will be used once in a great while and then put back on the shelf to sit for another 5-10 years. There is nothing wrong with this if you have the money to store. Just know that you will likely be storing a lot of money in this hobby.

The best way to throw away money is to buy junk stuff. Hobby guys tend to think that "this is just a hobby; I'm not making parts for NASA" so cheap stuff is fine as long as it looks like the real stuff. Cheap stuff is just that; cheap stuff. It looks like the good stuff but doesn't work like the good stuff. Before buying any stuff, learn all you can about it and which one is the gold standard for that tool and then go find one at a price you can handle, and buy it only once. Many of my tools are top of the line, purchased on ebay in either new or mint condition for less than an import version of the tool costs. Know what you want and jump when you see it.

Spend money on things that matter. On a mill, the vise and the tool holding system are the two areas where you should not scrimp because these are the foundations of accuracy. Research your choices to death before you jump on these important tools. Everything else is more flexible.

Know that tooling up a machine can, and probably will, cost you as much or more than the machine itself. Be sure you understand this because it is absolutely true. When looking at a mill, figure that it will cost double the price before it is fully functional. Sorry but this is the reality in this hobby and it doesn't even include the stuff you deposit on the shelf. You sure you want to get into this?

You should also know that it is the solemn duty of every HM member is to help you spend your money. We take this responsibility very seriously here and if you hang around long enough you will see that I speak the truth.

I just wanted to inject a bit of reality into this discussion. Your only defense against the rabbit hole is not to step into it in the first place. Remember that I warned you, okay?

 

[Aukai]

He ain't lying
You can also post any pre purchases here for opinions, I see a lot of I bought this, what do you think posts. After you buy it is not the time to ask.

 

[DavidR8]

"storing a lot of money" I love this... I just converted my shop into an investment bank!

 

[wachuko]

At first, I did not wanted to listen to these guys here telling me to go bigger…

Pretty sure they laughed and held back from telling me “I told you so…”

I ended up with a frigging huge knee mill and a 14x40 lathe…and I still do not know how to use any of this!!!!

If this is something you are passionate about…and have the space… just go big, just do it… You will be saving money in the long run…. Do not ask me how I know…

 

[DavidR8]

I second the buy big first notion.
I started out with a mini lathe because well, I had no clue. Lots of folks have them and some can do amazing work. Mine was a piece of junk. Luckily I was able to sell it and only took a minor loss.
Then I hunkered down and looked for a lathe that fit my needs and space. And as @mikey mentioned, I also did a major garage reno so I could fit in more tools.

 

[davidpbest]

You will find this hobby to be one of the best ways to deposit money on a shelf so that it is not usable for anything else. There are countless rotary tables, dividing heads, super-spacers, tilting angle tables, sine tables and many other devices that are currently sitting on shelves right now; they will be used once in a great while and then put back on the shelf to sit for another 5-10 years. There is nothing wrong with this if you have the money to store. Just know that you will likely be storing a lot of money in this hobby.

Well spoken. Some of my favorite (I'll need this someday) tools now sit side-by-side with my horology collection. Get started now - click here. The lesson here is to acquire tooling as you need it, not prospectively just because it's a "bargain".

The best way to throw away money is to buy junk stuff. Hobby guys tend to think that "this is just a hobby; I'm not making parts for NASA" so cheap stuff is fine as long as it looks like the real stuff. Cheap stuff is just that; cheap stuff. It looks like the good stuff but doesn't work like the good stuff. Before buying any stuff, learn all you can about it and which one is the gold standard for that tool and then go find one at a price you can handle, and buy it only once.

This is also sage advice - and the reason I posted my curated list of high quality tooling earlier in this thread.

Now, I suspect the chorus of "I bought my XYZ tool [carbide insert] from AlliExpress for $2.19 including shipping and it's AAA+++ quality" will begin. Not everyone can afford to acquire "investment grade" tooling, but if you have the long term in view, and direct your funds to the areas that really matter, you'll be way ahead. Having participated in this group for six years now, there seem to be a few topics where polar opposite views are continually expressed with resounding furvor: one is about cheap Asian versus quality name-brand tooling, another is imperial versus metric measurement systems, and yet another is sharpening HSS tooling versus indexable insert tooling.

 

[krby]

The lesson here is to acquire tooling as you need it, not prospectively just because it's a "bargain".


This is also sage advice - and the reason I posted my curated list of high quality tooling earlier in this thread.

Thanks again for all the replies. I did download your attachments. Part of picking a smaller and cheaper machine is because I've already heard the: "you'll spend at least as much on tooling" warning from others before joining this thread.

The "acquire tooling as you need it" is what is leading me toward the smaller machine. It's easier to justify spending on, easier on space (which increases WAF) and thinking about the parts I've wanted to do in the past couple of years, it's all been maybe a few inches (3x3x3 max?) not counting one 12x12x5/16 plate, which just needed slots near the front and back.

 

[compact8]

Speaking of tooling, I definitely found the cheap Chinese carbide tools ( end mills, inserts and slitsaws ) to be GREAT. e.g. a 6 mm carbide endmill just costs 3 bucks. At this cost you wont even think about durability but just the quality of cut and precision. I haven't compared them with investment-grade tools but I am happy with the result. Unless you cut tough metals such as tool steels or 304 stainless, the durabilty is good enough for me. Cant say the same for their HSS tools though ( but their price are super low ).

The major shortcoming of Chinese tools is the relatively limited range of options. E.g. they just produce 135 degree split-point drill bits but I want the 118 degree type because I can only get 120 deg carbide spoting drill from China. 135 deg drill bit will require 140 deg spoting drills which are available on Amazon but they are a LOT more expensive.