Tramming PM 833tv

[Tammy63]

I had some time to kill yesterday and I checked mine out and logged all the numbers.
This is what I used to get my numbers
2 Starrett 98-6 Machinists Level and 1 Starrett 98-8 Machinists Level
https://boringresearch.com/store/adjustable-spindle-square/
Mitutoyo Last Word Dial Indicator .0001" Spindle run out = 0.0003
Head down Quill up both Unlocked -0.0005 / 0.000 Locked I get 0.0035 / 0.004
I checked it with Head up Quill down and moved Y in and out with it being up 0.004 out from each Indicator .

My X has 4 ribs with Head down Quill up locked
1 -0.004 / -0.002
2 0.0025 / 0.002
3 0.003 / 0.0025
4 0.0045 / 0.003

Head Up Quill down locked
1 0.004 / -0.001
2 0.002 / -0.0005
3 0.002 / -0.001
4 0035 / -0.002

I'm not happy with the numbers I get but we get what we pay for right? The part I can't live with is I can't bore anything with it because the head/Quill with oscillate I get the same thing if I use a new Niagara Cutter 4 flute center cut pre drilled hole going into anything from 12L14 to 6061 and I can't find out where that is coming from. I adjusted all the gibs until I get less then 0.001 movement and I still get the oscillation.

I know PM asked me to call them but I can't see them doing anything to fix this other then maybe a new Mill but I don't see that happening from what I see from others that have this Mill...


I picked this one over the China PM-940V thinking it was going to be better but I was so wrong...

 

[yota]

I need to fess up. This approach (of tramming out nod by pulling the top of the column over to the wall behind it) failed for me. I think it might work in some circumstances, but here in North Texas the clay soils tend to result in substantial ground movement. So, the floor and wall that provided a tiny bit of "pull" to eliminate the nod only did so for a short time. When summer arrived, the floor settled lower towards the wall. One day I noticed that the nut on the rods had more than 1/3rd of an inch of slack since the top of the mill was now that much closer to the wall.

I could easily re-tram the nod away, but it would be a bad idea. When it rains enough to get the ground fully saturated (which could be a month or a few years away), the changes in elevation will reverse. And then it would pull the mill in the other direction.

It's possible that my stand could be modified to allow exerting a bit of force to pull the head back. The advantage being that the relationship between the stand and the mill is fixed.

My mill's nod was in the realm of "not too far off" and I've been using it a lot For now, I'm not going to worry about it until it causes me problems.

curious if you're built on Caliche soil and have a post tension concrete slab. there is a tremendous amount of movement in Caliche from wet to dry seasons, which is why they use post tension cables in the slabs.

 

[SouthernChap]

I know PM asked me to call them but I can't see them doing anything to fix this other then maybe a new Mill but I don't see that happening from what I see from others that have this Mill...

Either you have a phone package that has a very, very expensive call rate or you're kinda cutting your nose off to spite your face here.

You have this mill; what's the worst that can happen if you call PM?

You end up with the same machine that has given you all this trouble.

What's the best?

Well, you probably won't end up with a Deckel but you might have solutions to the problems or some of them at least.

I can't imagine a scenario where the consequences of calling are worse than not calling.

 

[davidpbest]

Well, you probably won't end up with a Deckel but you might have solutions to the problems or some of them at least.

Deckel - did someone say Deckel?

I can't imagine a scenario where the consequences of calling are worse than not calling.

I had one such: "Sorry we couldn't help, seems like you're doing everything right to diagnose the issue. I'll email you with the invoice for the 75 minutes of support time."

 

[davidpbest]

I picked this one over the China PM-940V thinking it was going to be better but I was so wrong...

Don't be so sure about that. Watch the first 2 minutes of this video:

 

[SouthernChap]

Deckel - did someone say Deckel?


I had one such: "Sorry we couldn't help, seems like you're doing everything right to diagnose the issue. I'll email you with the invoice for the 75 minutes of support time."

Would PM do this? That's not the impression I get.

 

[davidpbest]

Would PM do this? That's not the impression I get.

I did not say, nor did I intend to imply that Precision Matthews would do this kind of “charge for service” shenanigan. In fact, my interactions with PM have always been constructive and well intended. That said, I have seen quite a wide spectrum of user support from various suppliers, including the one I mentioned.

 

[SouthernChap]

I did not say, nor did I intend to imply that Precision Matthews would do this kind of “charge for service” shenanigan. In fact, my interactions with PM have always been constructive and well intended. That said, I have seen quite a wide spectrum of user support from various suppliers, including the one I mentioned.

Oh, you weren't talking about PM. Right, understood.

Yep, user support does vary quite a lot. I've had excellent support from Warco, with their support guys going to the trouble of finding a spare copy of the Warco Minor manual, and sending it in the post. When I phoned Warco to say thanks, I did mention that I'd have been happy with an emailed PDF, and the chap said people tend to appreciate having a hard copy. Their spares department are good guys too, giving me information on a bench grinder guard part for a version of their 6" bench grinder that was long discontinued, which enabled me to order (not from Warco, I should mention) and safely fit a slightly wider scotchbrite-like wheel.

I've also had the over-the phone 'shrug of the shoulders' from ArcEuroTrade when I asked them for the dimensions of a keyway on the spindle of their Seig SC3 and was then told they don't sell that as a spare.

Amadeal are another case in point. To be fair, though, the person I spoke to on the phone was at least honest and upfront about their limited knowledge.

 

[qualitymachinetools]

Yeah we are not scary, trust me. Shoot us a message and give a list of issues, we will help.

One point I see in the message:

The part I can't live with is I can't bore anything with it because the head/Quill with oscillate I get the same thing if I use a new Niagara Cutter 4 flute center cut pre drilled hole going into anything from 12L14 to 6061 and I can't find out where that is coming from. I adjusted all the gibs until I get less then 0.001 movement and I still get the oscillation.

If you are trying to plunge straight down/drill with an end mill, that isn't going to go well. You can do it, but its gonna want to jump around. The right way would be to drill the hole you need and then ream - if you need a very accurate size. If its a counterbore, use a counterbore tool.

I am not saying its an absolute no to plunge, but straight down with an end mill isn't something that always works well. An end mill is flat on the bottom, its trying to cut on 4 sides at the same time with the downpressure.

I did a plunge mill on our knee mill recently for a counterbore because it was a one off and I didnt have the right tool, and the whole head and table jumped around.

In a CNC, if you are plunging with an end mill, you are doing it in a circular pattern with a smaller diameter mill than the hole, and ramping down.

Search "Drilling with an end mill" or "plunging with an endmill" You will see much discussion about it.

Anyone else with experience please help with some tips here too. I would have to see exactly what you are doing. A video would be a great help so we could get you on the right track.

 

[Tammy63]

Yeah we are not scary, trust me. Shoot us a message and give a list of issues, we will help.

One point I see in the message:

The part I can't live with is I can't bore anything with it because the head/Quill with oscillate I get the same thing if I use a new Niagara Cutter 4 flute center cut pre drilled hole going into anything from 12L14 to 6061 and I can't find out where that is coming from. I adjusted all the gibs until I get less then 0.001 movement and I still get the oscillation.

If you are trying to plunge straight down/drill with an end mill, that isn't going to go well. You can do it, but its gonna want to jump around. The right way would be to drill the hole you need and then ream - if you need a very accurate size. If its a counterbore, use a counterbore tool.

I am not saying its an absolute no to plunge, but straight down with an end mill isn't something that always works well. An end mill is flat on the bottom, its trying to cut on 4 sides at the same time with the downpressure.

I did a plunge mill on our knee mill recently for a counterbore because it was a one off and I didnt have the right tool, and the whole head and table jumped around.

In a CNC, if you are plunging with an end mill, you are doing it in a circular pattern with a smaller diameter mill than the hole, and ramping down.

Search "Drilling with an end mill" or "plunging with an endmill" You will see much discussion about it.

Anyone else with experience please help with some tips here too. I would have to see exactly what you are doing. A video would be a great help so we could get you on the right track.

It's more than just that. I can drill a hole and open it up with a endmill and it will move around.
This shouldn't happen

And if you go back and look at my numbers you can see the table if not flat