The welder selection decisions?

[graham-xrf]

If you don't see yourself doing a welding project about once every month or two, AND welding steel meets your needs.
Consider buying a cheap 110 Volt "flux core welder". I have a couple of them, and for welding up tables they work just fine.
I would gladly weld metal up to 5/16th with them (without worrying about grinding grooves or channels beforehand).

When you say "flux core" is what I am curious about. The rods I have seen have the flux on the outside. Is "flux core" what supplies the gas in "gasless"

This may go with your wiring upgrade plan, as the WHERE of your welder can be just as important as finding a way to plug it in. I dealt with my "where" by purchasing a 40 foot extension cord made with 8 gauge wire. Borrow a buddy's flux core wire welder, and have him give you some tips on how to use it.

Welding often needs to be done here, then there, then entirely elsewhere. That's the whole reason the bigger ones get given wheels. I will have thick enough SWA cable to the shop. Any cable to the welder longer than from the cable supplied will have a fat gauge extension.

 

[graham-xrf]

Fur what it's worth: I had a mate argue til he was blue in the face that flux core MIG is "just as good". He's super cheap. Forced a decent gas MIG into his hand... Needless to say, he hasn't looked back and has totally reversed his opinion.

Hobbyweld | Home of the Original Rent Free Gas Cylinders

Hobbyweld supply a range of Rent Free Gas Cylinders, ideal for DIY and light trade welding and gas applications. Stop the rental and start saving today!

hobbyweld.co.uk

No rental charge. Just a 100% refundable bottle deposit. Refills are reasonable too and there are agents literally everywhere UK wide.

Many thanks. You replied while I was typing. I am guessing that you are UK based, because you sent me the link to UK-based welder supplier, and Hobbyweld appears also to be UK, although in Newcastle - pretty much other end of the country relative to me, but I will be looking for the local agent. That we can have the convenience of a deposit charge bottle with no time restraint on how long one keeps the bottle sure opens up the choice of welder I get from the beginning. I see this place also does that arrangement for oxy-acetylene. This business seems to fill the market need, instead of fixed hire from British Oxygen, and Air-Products.

That we can have this here must mean similar can be had in USA/Canada. You can likely have an Argon bottle without recurring hire charge!

 

[addertooth]

Graham-xrf,

Yes, when I said Flux-core, I was referring to a machine which looks like a MIG welder, except it does not use bottled gas. The welding "wire" it uses is actually a "tube", which has flux in the core. As it heats up, not only is flux released, but the high heat converts the flux in the center and produces gasses which help shield the weld puddle as well (not to the level of a real MIG welder). However, what has not been mentioned is the fact that flux core wire welders are much more friendly to use outside (a building) than classical MIG/TIG welders. When Using a classical MIG/TIG welder, your "shielding gas" (CO2, CO2/Argon, Argon, Helium) can get blown away by an outside breeze. It is the pocket of protective shield gasses which prevents the weld from getting ugly. When that pocket of gas gets blown away, it produces a result inferior to flux-core wire welding. This means welding "location of use" matters. If you intend to ALWAYS weld inside, then Gas-Using welders (MIG/TIG) are excellent. Flux-core welders are inside/outside welders. There is no question that gas using welder produce a "prettier weld", However, until you develop some skill, don't always trust pretty. Do some practice welds and then cut into them afterwards to inspect the quality of the weld. In the USA, a lot of farmers prefer Stick welding with flux-coated rods, as much of what they weld (farm equipment), has thick metal, AND they frequently must do their repairs outside.

I got started with stick welding, as it was a very economical way to get started. Many years later I got a flux-core wire welder (which to the casual observer looks like a MIG machine, but without the gas cylinder). For thin stuff (5/16th inch 8mm) or thinner, it works rather well. There is no question using a gas welder would produce prettier welds which would not require a wire brush to clean off the surface slag. Flux-Core welders are (for the most part) welding steel. Gas welders open the door to weld other materials, such as aluminum, or with TIG, even titanium. I have seen skilled TIG welders do amazing things, such as weld two thin-walled beer cans side to side with each other (that was the employment proficiency test in a shop I worked in for people who claimed to be TIG welders). This task was made more difficult, as they were not allowed to do surface prep. A blow-through, or a bad weld was a fail.

My main caution is that so many people buy welding equipment which does not match their eventual needs. Getting started with something cheap gives you time to get a feel for what your needs actually are. It gives you a chance to figure out your scale of use. It gives you time to sort out other details as well (location, grinder/wire brushes, Helmet, gloves, apron, welding table, clamps, etc). If you learn to weld correctly on a low-end machine, your welds on a high end machine will just be better. In the past I have been guilty of buying the tip-top super version of a tool, only to discover I only needed a fraction of the capability. This experience has made me cautious, and now I tend to dip my toe in something new, before taking the full plunge. Oh, and the cheap welders can frequently be sold for about 3/4 of their purchase price, as it seems that the market for inexpensive welders is always an active one.

Some day I may get one of the high end, water cooled TIG rigs, which is multi-process, and can do MIG and Plasma cutting... but for now, those are not critical needs for me. Figure out your real needs, before opening your wallet. I realize this advice is the opposite you frequently get in this group, which will frequently suggests you buy the maximum. If you do decide to get a super-machine, then some welding classes would be merited, so you gain the full value of the equipment you purchased.

Best of luck with your choices, I know they are not easy.

Addertooth.

 

[7milesup]

Addertooth...

It is my understanding that you can run flux core wire in any MIG welder, even if the MIG welder can run gas. Just turn the gas off. Am I wrong? Seems to me I remember doing that at one point (I don't own a MIG welder, just a Lincoln 200 TIG), but I have run MIG a number of times.

Stick welding.... Stick welding is actually rather difficult to do it correctly. Also Graham, stick welding is VERY messy. It develops a lot of splatter and a LOT of smoke due to the flux being on the outside and "burning" off. I only stick weld outside.

Welcome to the deep rabbit hole of welding. A whole 'nother hobby...

 

[Lo-Fi]

No worries I think I knew from a previous thread that you're this side of the pond. We're a little few and far between compared to our friends the other side, so thought I'd be able to help out with UK links, particularly with the gas. Shame we're other ends of the country!

I've been using hobbyweld for years myself. It's something like £55 for an argo-shield bottle for MIG, and £65 for pure argon for TIG refills. Bottle deposit was something around £70 if memory serves. If you weld infrequently, a mid size bottle will likely last you a year. Regulators around the £25 mark have been quite satisfactory for me.

I have that Lincoln hood myself, btw, having gone through many lower priced. R-Tech also make something very decent, but half the price:

R-Tech Auto True Colour HD XXL Welding Helmet

R-Tech True Colour HD XXL Welding Helmet. See realistic colours when welding for only £99, FREE spare lenses, Next Day UK delivery

www.r-techwelding.co.uk

I own both, but the Lincoln is actually worth it if you're not too budget conscious. The clarity is unreal and I've never once had it not trigger when welding low amps. Though I got my ISO9606 coding on MIG using the R-Tech, come to think of it!

 

[graham-xrf]

No worries I think I knew from a previous thread that you're this side of the pond. We're a little few and far between compared to our friends the other side, so thought I'd be able to help out with UK links, particularly with the gas. Shame we're other ends of the country!

I've been using hobbyweld for years myself. It's something like £55 for an argo-shield bottle for MIG, and £65 for pure argon for TIG refills. Bottle deposit was something around £70 if memory serves. If you weld infrequently, a mid size bottle will likely last you a year. Regulators around the £25 mark have been quite satisfactory for me.

I have that Lincoln hood myself, btw, having gone through many lower priced. R-Tech also make something very decent, but half the price:

R-Tech Auto True Colour HD XXL Welding Helmet

R-Tech True Colour HD XXL Welding Helmet. See realistic colours when welding for only £99, FREE spare lenses, Next Day UK delivery

www.r-techwelding.co.uk

I own both, but the Lincoln is actually worth it if you're not too budget conscious. The clarity is unreal and I've never once had it not trigger when welding low amps. Though I got my ISO9606 coding on MIG using the R-Tech, come to think of it!

Firstly, thanks also to @addertooth. The usage inside/outside is a valuable point. Indeed, the whole thing is a great explanation to help fit the choice to one's needs. Its awkward. I recognize that having some expensive, top line kit with all sorts of capabilities you never use, and maybe you only use the kit occasionally, is not a smart thing to do. At the other end, I have at times purchased cheap, thinking it only had to fill an immediate need, and could be useful later, if only to learn on - and regretted it. I have had all sorts of stuff where I bought cheap, and had to buy twice. I have stuff which, though functional, I wished I had bought better. My cheapo metal detector which found my lost wedding ring in the grass outside the door maybe should have gone the way of de-clutter long ago! It did the job, so owes me nothing, but is far from what I would want.

I searched this forum, thinking that a thread just like this must surely have existed. Maybe it does, but all the comment here so far has been rock-solid informative.
- - - - - - - - - - -
I will likely get the Lincoln hood, from your link or something very like it. I will probably never need another.
I have found the local Hobbyweld gas agent. I will be doing that.

It seems that if one has an outside job, in the wind, it can be done with the gas-core flux in a regular MIG welder.
Thinking through the science logic here, provided it is possible to get a connection to the power without running a wire feed, then in principle, stick welding could be done by a fundamentally MIG machine.

TIG makes a plasma arc for the heat, but in hand feed technique, seems similar to oxy-acetylene, though without the effect of unburned gases in the metal. I suppose a correct adjusted neutral flame gets over that, but it seems to me that TIG would give the cleanest weld. MIG looks like it has the minimum effect on heating up the surrounding metal area.

[Edit - There is also MAG mentioned in the video - still decoding that]!

 

[kb58]

1. Stick, MIG, TIG? Can any welder do more than one? TIG is the most versatile, can even do brazing and stick welding (on some).
2. Gas, or gasless? What's the deal there? Gasless is mostly only on the low(est) end MIG machines. That said, it can be useful if you have to fix something out in the middle of nowhere and don't want to lug around a gas bottle.
3. How many amps for HM-style hobby use, if generally about 1/4" or maybe 5/16" angle, or common box sections up to about 50mm square is what we expect? 200 amps will do most anything, though thicker aluminum takes a ton of current. That said, it's actually more important about how low the amps can go before cutting off. It's not an option when welding thin material to have very low amps.
4. Helmet - features essential. Self-darkening, for sure. In general, you get what you pay for.
5. Inverter or transformer? Inverter I guess. I decode IGBT to mean "Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistor". Depends. If it stays in the shop, either is fine. Only if it has to be moved a far distance does the inverter have an advantage. Note that the advantage is diminished because most welders have a very short power cord, in addition to the tanks and chiller make the inverter advantage even less so.
6. Which YouTube reviews are really useful? No recommendations there.
7.HF Ignition? How does that work? Definitely, else you have to touch the electrode to the work. It works by overlaying a brief ~10,000V pulse onto the electrode, causing it to arc to the work, which initiates the main arc.
8. Torch cooling - water or air, or don't need to bother? Needed only if you weld for any amount of time (think, "5 minutes or so). Without cooling, the torch handle will get hotter and hotter with use. Without cooling, it'll eventually become too hot to hold. I"ve used both and like a cooled setup, but it all depends upon its use.
9. Given I am in UK, and in current circumstances have to use online ordering, the only common point in finding respected brands is Amazon or eBay (perhaps). There are outlets in UK for traditional established brands e.g. Lincoln or similar.
10. Are there types, or indeed brands, that one should avoid? Avoid any units in the bottom ~35% of the price spectrum.
11. Is there a (low) price point where one may reasonably suspect the quality is likely to be crap? The price range for similar-looking welders can be huge. The relationship between price, and current rating is (sort of) there, but with huge variance. Same answer.
12. I even see a Hyundai claiming MIG TIG ARC MMA, apparently all in one. So is there such a thing as "one welder does all"? Better TIG machines do both AC and DC, so you can weld aluminium (tip of the hat to you brits Some also have the ability to stick weld.
13. Other than gloves and auto-darken helmet, is there a list of other kit that can be considered essential? Gas bottles (get two so you don't run out when the gas shop is closed), hoses, regulator, torch kit, cooler (maybe), cart, etc.

Don't overlook buying a used high-end machine, but I have to admit that didn't work out for me, as people keep the good machines pretty much forever, so I ended up buying a new Miller Syncrowave 250 about 22 years ago. No regrets.

Lastly, if at all possible, stick with the 220-240V versions. While some "can" work on lower voltage, it's never very well.

My welder was used for building both from-scratch cars in my signature

 

[graham-xrf]

Along with 2 files, hacksaw and a big hammer, I guess we have to add angle grinder (got one) and pointy slag chipping hammer (seen one on video).
Is there a science behind the handle with the bulb-shaped grip made out of a spring?
I guess either good ventilation or 3M mask. I think the fumes are probably not good for you.

 

[Lo-Fi]

I've only ever seen pro stick welders use the end of a file you're supposed to put in a handle to chip slag!

I think it's just a handle you can't set fire to and doesn't weigh a ton. I own one, but never use.

 

[Asm109]

Just to clarify one thing. Tig welders can do traditional Stick welding. The power supplies are the same. MIG power supplies are different and you do not stick weld with a MIG box.