Starting completely from scratch -literally- In what order should I make my tools?

Oh my goodness, I'm so incredibly shocked. Really lost for words, Thank you sooo much! I'll message you with shipping details.

Really so grateful!

I found a nameless micrometer at a pawn shop today; They thought that it was a box o staples and had it up for 5$. Its nothing exceptional, probably made in China, but I tested it against some gauge blocks they had and it was pretty accurate!
 
"Do ask around to see if you can get any pieces that will help you along the way for free, it's probably possible to turn an old drill press casting into a lathe headstock. Epoxy granite is definitely an option but getting it right is challenging from the research I've done. It's probably more likely to take an old cast iron wood lathe bed and convert that to a metal lathe. The problem with the Gingery tools from what I can tell is casting everything in aluminum doesn't give the strength and rigidity of iron."

Fortunately before my accident I was a partner in a fairly high end modified concrete casting company (these guys there https://szolyd.com)
I have a lot of experience with mold making and precision mold casting
I"m interested to see how and where I can apply it to my design choices.
 
You guys are really incredible. I'm so glad I stumbled upon this forum.

I have a quick question or two

1) what kind of steel are drill bits? Do they generally have enough carbon to anneal, work, then reharden?
I'm planning to work on learning hand graving while I get my stuff together. Just a hammer and some gravers, easy enough!

2) I totally agree with the suggestions that I start with some good files, though, for now I think I'll try to ind a decent set o needle files. The question is this: I would like to make and chisel my own larger files, so, what would be the best grade of steel to do this with? I know this sounds crazy and I should just buy some, but part of what I'm doing is seeing how far I can go really making everything I want to use.

I don't know if I mentioned this, but I have access to a glassblowing studio, large torches, and kilns, so forging some chisels and other similar elements should be easy enough. I'm keeping my eyes open for a little piece of railway to make a jury rigged anvil.

Last but not least, ERICC - by "how many years do you have" you mean metalworking experience? Its an interesting question - I've been woodworking since my father decided I was old enough to use a knife. Maybe 8 years old?
I've been blowing glass since 2002 or 3 I think, Though I guess I cant do that too much anymore with the injury. Also I've been working with metal casually on and off throughout the years here and there informally to get projects done. So no years but technically also a fair bit of casual experience? Oh I also did a few years of silversmithing.
 
Also, I thought I might try going around to some of the machine shops around town and offer to sweep floors for free for an hour or two a week. It will help me to move around a bit, and I bet I could pick up a lot of information just chatting and watching people there. Plus I could probably harvest some real sweet scrap!
 
G Jones said:
Also, I thought I might try going around to some of the machine shops around town and offer to sweep floors for free for an hour or two a week. It will help me to move around a bit, and I bet I could pick up a lot of information just chatting and watching people there. Plus I could probably harvest some real sweet scrap!
Click to expand...

If you have a metal supply in the area you can often get cut offs, miscuts and irregular pieces for very little. I'm in a small town and I have a metal supplier, they sell their scrap steel for $0.65 /lb ($1.08 / kg in Canada money). I've gotten quite a bit of metal for small projects very cheap this way.

I just went there today to get the stock to build a welding cart. I left with 100lbs of misc scrap tubing and treadplate. The only thing I paid full price for was a 2x4 ft sheet of 10 gauge. A couple of months ago I got a nice piece of 1/2" steel plate that has become my welding table.

Most of the scrap is essentially new metal, just in lengths to short for them to want to deal with, but often perfect for hobby stuff.
 
If I were going to make gravers I would just grind some 1/8" square HSS tool bits. They are already hardened and you simply need to put them in a handle. Not only is it easier, they work very, very well. Of course, you have to sharpen them but there is a lot of info on doing that.

I don't know what kind of steel is best for files. If I were going to try it though, I would write Michael Ariou of Ariou Toolworks and ask his advice. He makes the finest hand-cut wood files in the world and knows what he's talking about.
 
G Jones said:
"Do ask around to see if you can get any pieces that will help you along the way for free, it's probably possible to turn an old drill press casting into a lathe headstock. Epoxy granite is definitely an option but getting it right is challenging from the research I've done. It's probably more likely to take an old cast iron wood lathe bed and convert that to a metal lathe. The problem with the Gingery tools from what I can tell is casting everything in aluminum doesn't give the strength and rigidity of iron."

Fortunately before my accident I was a partner in a fairly high end modified concrete casting company (these guys there https://szolyd.com)
I have a lot of experience with mold making and precision mold casting
I"m interested to see how and where I can apply it to my design choices.
Click to expand...

Looks like some really cool stuff there:encourage:

If you come up with some hobby level designs you may even be able to have stuff cast and sell it to make a few bucks. I'm thinking a small lathe bed with headstock and tailstock castings, kit form for people to complete themselves using linear rails and off-the-shelf components.

The Gingery concept is cool but if somebody updated it, and offered castings it might be great for us hobby folks. Working with the linear rail and ballscrew components that are available pretty cheap today I'm convinced that building accurate machines is totally within reach. Given the state of composite technology, rigidity without cast iron should be possible for a reasonable cost at low volumes.

I'll be very interested to see where you go from here since it sounds like you have a lot of capability for designing some pretty cool stuff. I know lots of hobby folks would be interested in building their own machines if they could get good castings (just look at the work people go through with new mini-machines from China).

I'm just thinking out loud here as we tend to do on the forum but I would definitely encourage you to look into what it would take to produce a short run of mini-lathe castings with the technology your old company uses.



Cheers,

John
 
G Jones said:
Also, I thought I might try going around to some of the machine shops around town and offer to sweep floors for free for an hour or two a week. It will help me to move around a bit, and I bet I could pick up a lot of information just chatting and watching people there. Plus I could probably harvest some real sweet scrap!
Click to expand...

I get my offcuts from a local shop and I don't even sweep their floor (I do pay for them though).
 
G Jones said:
You guys are really incredible. I'm so glad I stumbled upon this forum.

I have a quick question or two

1) what kind of steel are drill bits? Do they generally have enough carbon to anneal, work, then reharden?
I'm planning to work on learning hand graving while I get my stuff together. Just a hammer and some gravers, easy enough!

2) I totally agree with the suggestions that I start with some good files, though, for now I think I'll try to ind a decent set o needle files. The question is this: I would like to make and chisel my own larger files, so, what would be the best grade of steel to do this with? I know this sounds crazy and I should just buy some, but part of what I'm doing is seeing how far I can go really making everything I want to use.

I don't know if I mentioned this, but I have access to a glassblowing studio, large torches, and kilns, so forging some chisels and other similar elements should be easy enough. I'm keeping my eyes open for a little piece of railway to make a jury rigged anvil.

Last but not least, ERICC - by "how many years do you have" you mean metalworking experience? Its an interesting question - I've been woodworking since my father decided I was old enough to use a knife. Maybe 8 years old?
I've been blowing glass since 2002 or 3 I think, Though I guess I cant do that too much anymore with the injury. Also I've been working with metal casually on and off throughout the years here and there informally to get projects done. So no years but technically also a fair bit of casual experience? Oh I also did a few years of silversmithing.
Click to expand...

What I mean is how many years do you plan to devote to starting from scratch? It is a good idea to remain flexible and not have too many preconceptions in the future else one can burn out. If you find some junk tools, you can skip a lot of tedious parts and jump start your progress. You have to be very careful not to pick up some old seized junk power hacksaw and leave it in your front yard, staring at it with a whole bunch of grand plans, only to discover that several years have gone by and it hasn't cut an inch of metal.

As for drill bits, it is very helpful to go to garage sales and buy old junk stuff. Then, learn to spark test. There are several lessons on Youtube. Don't bother trying to anneal and heat treat HSS. It is beyond your abilities and facilities. Just trust me on this one. Really. Instead learn to grind it into effective shapes for cutting metal. There are plenty of resources here. Old drill bits from the era of blacksmiths and cheap not so old imported drill bits are made out of plain carbon steel. These can be annealed and heat treated. A good machinist can spot these just by the way they wear, but if you have any cheap grinder, the spark test will identify them immediately. Save them in a small container. They can be heat treated with a propane torch.

It is hard to scrounge good steel for files. The best scrap steel for making files is old files. Some files are case hardened. A good blacksmith will be able to spot them by how they wear or by familiarity with the name. Again, the spark test will tell you immediately. Kelly Cupples or the New Jersey Steel Baron can sell you plain carbon tool steel. It is great, but it costs money, and you may not like that. If you are afraid of money, and you cannot find decent simple carbon steel, go to that video I mentioned by Clickspring. It is a classic. Highly recommended. It's one of the only videos that I've watched more than once.
 
ericc - If this keeps me busy or ten years I'd be delighted. I've wanted my own little shop space for years, and only recently in the last year have my issues with disability and housing started to stabilize.

As to the heat treatment of steel - I have access to very large oxy fuel glassblowing torches and high heat electric kilns, so I don't think its totally out of reach, even if its something I should maybe worry about later.

I've seen a couple clickspring videos, they're great! I'll go work through them.

EDIT- If, after a bit of trouble, I find I can't get my hands on decent metal to make files to the sizes I'd like, I can always just go buy a bunch of old Nichols files for a few bucks.

What I really need to do is find some reading material and learn about the different types of steel.
 
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