some oxyacy questions

[jfcayron]

some guy on some board who claims he knows how to weld.

Point taken.
However I would like you to give a bit more credit to our members. I did receive formal classroom and practical training in OA and arc welding. So did many of us.

 

[Uglydog]

The thing that has baffled me for over 10 years on the Internet is where so many experts came from.I've only been making metal do things it didn't want to do for 50 years, and I know a dirty trick or 90, but at least half of what I read on welding sites written by experts amazes me.What I do not understand is why with ESAB providing over 50 pages of O/A welding, soldering and brazing information at http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/OXY_handbook/589oxy1_1.htm on line is why so many people rely on some guy on some board who claims he knows how to weld.

My full time job is teaching Paramedics.
I did a very, very short time on the national lecture circuit.
Drove me nuts to think that somebody was paying money to some self proclaimed Subject Matter Expert (SME).
Same happens in the classroom. What makes me an expert? Am I any better than the thousands of other Paramedics?
I also authored some chapters in EMS textbooks. The people that wrote the ESAB and other expert sources are possibly no better than I was when I stopped pretending.
My post is not about me.
The real question is: What is an expert?
Will these References be around in 50 or 100 hundred years? And still be "go to" sources?
The Bible, Koran, Shakespeare, Dickens, Hemingway, Connolly, Manly...

 

[jocat54]

Expert= Drip under pressure)

 

[Tony Wells]

By the same token, some of the ESAB authors may well participate on some of the Internet forums, so a blanket statement like that is really a bit unfair. Painting with too broad a brush. That brush would have to include you yourself, and we generally try not to make such generalizations here, since we don't really know each other well enough to judge qualifications. And it's a given that what you read on most any forum is an individual's own opinion based (sometimes, at least) on his experience. I'll certainly grant that there are a great many posters on the Internet on any news-feed as well as any forum on any subject that love to spout off their own brand of "knowledge", and we all know it's apt to be rubbish. That's why some even qualify their advice with "YMMV", or "This is worth exactly what you paid for it".

It's just the nature of the beast. I totally agree that there simply is no substitute for a hands on teacher, or at least someone watching over your shoulder as you try to learn. The Internet will never replace that, no matter what they try in school these days. I was actually taught by my grandfather holding my hand as I welded, and I'm not ashamed of that. I was 12. But I learned to weld. I held a woman's hand as I taught her to weld. Worked out pretty good. No Internet involved.

I also agree about the Certification Mills......just like most professions, just spend the bucks and a little time, and you can get a paper that says you are "IT", and sometimes that will get you on the job. Staying is another matter. Can't do.....can't stay. That was my hiring motto.

 

[sniggler]

One of the original questions had to do with piercing with a torch. When making a hole in the middle of a plate i like to really get it hot before engaging the oxygen lever that is seen as the surface getting wet i would be holding the tip about 1/4 inch off the work for heating as i hit the oxygen lever i simultaneously lift the torch tip a little which reduces the amount of splash back on the tip.

If this is being done to make same a 4 inch hole in a plate so the inside of the circle is waste then by all means angle the tip a little as you engage the lever this way the splash back can go away from you and the tip. This is one of those skills the takes practice. Also when you engage the oxygen go full on don't feather the lever you want to make the hole the first time every time. On thicker plate there's going to be blow back before you make it through you have to hold through the fireworks and wear good personal protective equipment. This is an operation that can really over heat the torch head and cause burning inside the torch head.

Bob

 

[Uglydog]

By the same token, some of the ESAB authors may well participate on some of the Internet forums, so a blanket statement like that is really a bit unfair. Painting with too broad a brush. That brush would have to include you yourself, and we generally try not to make such generalizations here, since we don't really know each other well enough to judge qualifications. And it's a given that what you read on most any forum is an individual's own opinion based (sometimes, at least) on his experience. I'll certainly grant that there are a great many posters on the Internet on any news-feed as well as any forum on any subject that love to spout off their own brand of "knowledge", and we all know it's apt to be rubbish. That's why some even qualify their advice with "YMMV", or "This is worth exactly what you paid for it".

It's just the nature of the beast. I totally agree that there simply is no substitute for a hands on teacher, or at least someone watching over your shoulder as you try to learn. The Internet will never replace that, no matter what they try in school these days. I was actually taught by my grandfather holding my hand as I welded, and I'm not ashamed of that. I was 12. But I learned to weld. I held a woman's hand as I taught her to weld. Worked out pretty good. No Internet involved.

I also agree about the Certification Mills......just like most professions, just spend the bucks and a little time, and you can get a paper that says you are "IT", and sometimes that will get you on the job. Staying is another matter. Can't do.....can't stay. That was my hiring motto.

If any of my comments have been unclear, then please forgive me. I had no intention of criticizing or making specific reference to ESAB, other authors, videos or posters. ESAB and other sources really are experts. However, sometimes us noobs look to other sources. It becomes difficult to sort out the expert from the also ran, and wanna be. Best I can suggest to anyone is what I suggested at the beginning of this thread: what does the manufacture say? ESAB and other manufactures are likely the absolute best sources for accurate, and safe information.

 

[Ray C]

Now you've done it. I hate you guys. You made me go out and rent an ACY tank...


[Just kidding of course, I have some steel too big for the bandsaw and too thick for the plasma cutter].

 

[Uglydog]

RayC,
If you really don't have Acetylene and are planning only to cut. Then consider Propane.
It's only good for cutting, but seems to do ok, can be purchased nearly anywhere, and is much less expensive!
The experts argue about appropriate regulators and hoses.
I went with Smiths recommendations.

 

[Ray C]

Yes, I use propane tips (two piece, recessed orifice) all the time.

The real issue here is that I picked-up some ACY under the guise of needing it for cutting when I'm really planning to try my hand at welding. -Haven't done it since I was 17 or 18 years old.



Ray

RayC,
If you really don't have Acetylene and are planning only to cut. Then consider Propane.
It's only good for cutting, but seems to do ok, can be purchased nearly anywhere, and is much less expensive!
The experts argue about appropriate regulators and hoses.
I went with Smiths recommendations.

 

[AndyA]

Also be aware victor style tips come in two torch sizes. There's a 1 and a 3. There may be more sizes. Where did size 2 go? I've only seen 1 and 3. I'd hate for you to plunk down money just to find out you can't use the tip in your torch. There's also another size number that specifies the size of the orifices. So you can buy a torch size 1 tip in orifice sizes: 000, 00, 0, 1, 2, 3, etc. I think they refer to the torch size as "series".

Some guys swear you should cut the fuel off first. Other guys swear you should cut off the oxygen first. The manual for my victor torch says cut the oxygen off first. So guess which way I do it. Read and follow the manual that matches your equipment. Easy enough.

The victor tips for acetylene aren't recommended for propane. You might be able to use them. I've never tried. I only use about two tips sizes, so I just bought the tips made to work with propane. These tips have "GPN" in their part number. Again they come in (at least) two sizes, 1 and 3.

Tips will cost you somewhere around $12 each and $15 for the GPN ones. They last me a couple of years so it's not a big expense. If you increase your torch height after you start the cut, you can avoid clogging the tip and they last longer. Also get a set of small drills or "pin files" to clean the holes. Try not to increase the size of the holes when cleaning.

See the attached chart to relate orifice sizes to the thickness of metal you want to cut. You can use a larger tip to cut a particular size of metal. Just be aware the cut may be a little more ragged. This can save you a little money if you don't want to buy several sizes right away. I find I usually put in the #1 tip and go with it. Your steadiness of hand will mean more on a clean cut than the oversized tip.

A 4 lbs hammer is great for smoothing up the end of the cut. It knocks off any slag, but also beats down most of the little ripples. This gives you a consistant fit-up for welding.