Sawblade Error?

[projectnut]

Thank you everyone for your input. My experience with my 10" Dewalt RAS is similar to Mike's experience with his 10" Delta. At the time when these saws were new there wasn't much talk about tooth hook or grind profile. I have over a dozen blades for this saw and none of them state either the type of grind or the amount of hook.

Keep in mind my Dewalt saw was purchased years before carbide tipped blades came on the market. When carbide tips started becoming popular HSS and carbon steel blades were all but being given away. The thought was that the new style was going to replace every non-carbide blade in the world. They may have worked fine in some situations, but I quickly found out they weren't the best for my particular saw. At that point in time there were 2 limiting factors for their use. First off, the hp of the saws were overrated. The Dewalt 740 supposedly develops 2 hp. In reality it's closer to 1 or 1 1/2. Secondly the original carbide tipped blades all had an 1/8" kerf as compared to the 1/16" kerf of a plain steel blade. The combination of lack of power and wide kerf blades were tough on the saw. In one summer I went through 2 overloads trying to cut treated lumber for a deck.

The manual for the Dewalt saw recommends setting the roller head bearings tight enough to the rails that it takes 6 psi to pull the head across the table. I'm guessing this is done to minimize the self-feeding effect of positive hook blades. The Delta saw manual doesn't specify any amount of pressure needed to advance the head. It also has a cutting head return mechanism that retracts the cutting head when the handle is released.

In days past blade grind technology for consumer-oriented saws was all but nonexistent. There were different blades for ripping and cross cutting, but the differences were mainly number of teeth, and depth of the gullets.

Fast forward 50 years and blade technology has changed drastically. We're talking a number of tooth grinds from ATB to TCG, ATBR, HATB, ATAFR, and who knows what else. Hook angles (rake) vary from -5* to +20* and possibly more. Different types of saws require different blades for different materials. The one notable thing is that most blade manufacturers recommend negative hook blades for radial arm saws, and positive hook blades for table saws. The newer technology enhances the performance of older or under powered saws. It also allows most any saw to make precise flawless cuts in nearly any material.

Having said all this, I think I'll give one of the new blades a try next weekend. At this point the only thing that needs to be done is crosscutting more decking boards to length. If the current blades don't give a satisfactory cut there will be a couple Freud Ultimate cutoff blades (LU85RO14) on the short list of blades to buy. I'll also consider a couple heavy duty Freud glue line ripping blades (LM72MO14). The reason I mention purchasing 2 of each style blade is that quality sharpening businesses are all but nonexistent in the immediate area. The blades will have to be shipped to a sharpener, which usually takes a week or more depending on their workload. I'd hate to be down for a week or more due to a dull saw blade.

Thanks again everyone!

 

[MikeInOr]

Thank you everyone for your input. My experience with my 10" Dewalt RAS is similar to Mike's experience with his 10" Delta. At the time when these saws were new there wasn't much talk about tooth hook or grind profile. I have over a dozen blades for this saw and none of them state either the type of grind or the amount of hook.

Keep in mind my Dewalt saw was purchased years before carbide tipped blades came on the market. When carbide tips started becoming popular HSS and carbon steel blades were all but being given away. The thought was that the new style was going to replace every non-carbide blade in the world. They may have worked fine in some situations, but I quickly found out they weren't the best for my particular saw. At that point in time there were 2 limiting factors for their use. First off, the hp of the saws were overrated. The Dewalt 740 supposedly develops 2 hp. In reality it's closer to 1 or 1 1/2. Secondly the original carbide tipped blades all had an 1/8" kerf as compared to the 1/16" kerf of a plain steel blade. The combination of lack of power and wide kerf blades were tough on the saw. In one summer I went through 2 overloads trying to cut treated lumber for a deck.

The manual for the Dewalt saw recommends setting the roller head bearings tight enough to the rails that it takes 6 psi to pull the head across the table. I'm guessing this is done to minimize the self-feeding effect of positive hook blades. The Delta saw manual doesn't specify any amount of pressure needed to advance the head. It also has a cutting head return mechanism that retracts the cutting head when the handle is released.

In days past blade grind technology for consumer-oriented saws was all but nonexistent. There were different blades for ripping and cross cutting, but the differences were mainly number of teeth, and depth of the gullets.

Fast forward 50 years and blade technology has changed drastically. We're talking a number of tooth grinds from ATB to TCG, ATBR, HATB, ATAFR, and who knows what else. Hook angles (rake) vary from -5* to +20* and possibly more. Different types of saws require different blades for different materials. The one notable thing is that most blade manufacturers recommend negative hook blades for radial arm saws, and positive hook blades for table saws. The newer technology enhances the performance of older or under powered saws. It also allows most any saw to make precise flawless cuts in nearly any material.

Having said all this, I think I'll give one of the new blades a try next weekend. At this point the only thing that needs to be done is crosscutting more decking boards to length. If the current blades don't give a satisfactory cut there will be a couple Freud Ultimate cutoff blades (LU85RO14) on the short list of blades to buy. I'll also consider a couple heavy duty Freud glue line ripping blades (LM72MO14). The reason I mention purchasing 2 of each style blade is that quality sharpening businesses are all but nonexistent in the immediate area. The blades will have to be shipped to a sharpener, which usually takes a week or more depending on their workload. I'd hate to be down for a week or more due to a dull saw blade.

Thanks again everyone!

I have a stack of 10" HSS blades at my mothers house right next to my fathers 10" Delta turret arm. I remember when he bought our first carbide blade. I have 2 or 3 12" HSS blades myself. HSS will leave an excellent cut... they just have to be sharpened much more often than carbide blades to maintain their cut quality.

I think the blade you have will do an EXCELLENT job on your deck boards. Honestly, I would not use one of my Freud UCO (ultimate cut off) blades for deck boards. Where my UCO blades really shine is on hard maple and rock hard IPE where combination blades don't leave as smooth of a cut. The UCO blades will leave a 45 cut in IPE so sharp it is dangerous, I have cut myself more than once on an IPE 45 off cut. UCO blades are also excellent for cutting plywood on the RAS. They leave a much cleaner cut edge with less tear out on plywood in my experience. In my world I use my 30 year old carbide combination blade for stuff like decks, framing lumber, etc. and it leaves an excellent quality cut without any tear out. I save my UCO blades for "Fine" woodworking.

 

[woodchucker]

As many of you know I have been in the process of refreshing a Delta 14" long arm radial saw. I've also been looking for moderately priced blades for the machine. It was suggested by members here I look for ones with a negative relief (hook), and either a triple chip grind or an alternative top bevel. I came across a couple Guhdo Gmaxx blades last week with 100 tpi, a triple chip grind, and a 2* negative rake. The pictures were a bit blurry, so I contacted the seller and asked for some clarification. They answered all my questions satisfactorily and I thought they met all the criteria, so I ordered them.

They arrived today and I was a bit shocked. The one picture I didn't get was the one with the UPC label. That picture describes the blade as being one for non-ferrous metals and aluminum. To further complicate things there are reputable blade vendors that also recommend this tooth grind for laminates, plastics, and even precision cuts for picture and door frames. These vendors stated that a blade with a triple chip grind, and 80 or more teeth should be used for cutting across the grain. They excel in making crisp miter cuts.

I would like some input and opinions as to whether the blades I purchased will be adequate for general use. The first job on the list is to finish cutting the boards for the pier decking.

way too many teeth... I would look for 40 teeth. 80 is a very slow cutting blade, although good for fine cross cuts, it's real slow. It will leave a polished edge.. as for the post about 100 teeth????? what.. no

 

[woodchucker]

Thank you everyone for your input. My experience with my 10" Dewalt RAS is similar to Mike's experience with his 10" Delta. At the time when these saws were new there wasn't much talk about tooth hook or grind profile. I have over a dozen blades for this saw and none of them state either the type of grind or the amount of hook.

Keep in mind my Dewalt saw was purchased years before carbide tipped blades came on the market. When carbide tips started becoming popular HSS and carbon steel blades were all but being given away. The thought was that the new style was going to replace every non-carbide blade in the world. They may have worked fine in some situations, but I quickly found out they weren't the best for my particular saw. At that point in time there were 2 limiting factors for their use. First off, the hp of the saws were overrated. The Dewalt 740 supposedly develops 2 hp. In reality it's closer to 1 or 1 1/2. Secondly the original carbide tipped blades all had an 1/8" kerf as compared to the 1/16" kerf of a plain steel blade. The combination of lack of power and wide kerf blades were tough on the saw. In one summer I went through 2 overloads trying to cut treated lumber for a deck.

The manual for the Dewalt saw recommends setting the roller head bearings tight enough to the rails that it takes 6 psi to pull the head across the table. I'm guessing this is done to minimize the self-feeding effect of positive hook blades. The Delta saw manual doesn't specify any amount of pressure needed to advance the head. It also has a cutting head return mechanism that retracts the cutting head when the handle is released.

In days past blade grind technology for consumer-oriented saws was all but nonexistent. There were different blades for ripping and cross cutting, but the differences were mainly number of teeth, and depth of the gullets.

Fast forward 50 years and blade technology has changed drastically. We're talking a number of tooth grinds from ATB to TCG, ATBR, HATB, ATAFR, and who knows what else. Hook angles (rake) vary from -5* to +20* and possibly more. Different types of saws require different blades for different materials. The one notable thing is that most blade manufacturers recommend negative hook blades for radial arm saws, and positive hook blades for table saws. The newer technology enhances the performance of older or under powered saws. It also allows most any saw to make precise flawless cuts in nearly any material.

Having said all this, I think I'll give one of the new blades a try next weekend. At this point the only thing that needs to be done is crosscutting more decking boards to length. If the current blades don't give a satisfactory cut there will be a couple Freud Ultimate cutoff blades (LU85RO14) on the short list of blades to buy. I'll also consider a couple heavy duty Freud glue line ripping blades (LM72MO14). The reason I mention purchasing 2 of each style blade is that quality sharpening businesses are all but nonexistent in the immediate area. The blades will have to be shipped to a sharpener, which usually takes a week or more depending on their workload. I'd hate to be down for a week or more due to a dull saw blade.

Thanks again everyone!

you are cross cutting, don't go for a ripping blade.

 

[MikeInOr]

As many of you know I have been in the process of refreshing a Delta 14" long arm radial saw. I've also been looking for moderately priced blades for the machine. It was suggested by members here I look for ones with a negative relief (hook), and either a triple chip grind or an alternative top bevel. I came across a couple Guhdo Gmaxx blades last week with 100 tpi, a triple chip grind, and a 2* negative rake. The pictures were a bit blurry, so I contacted the seller and asked for some clarification. They answered all my questions satisfactorily and I thought they met all the criteria, so I ordered them.

They arrived today and I was a bit shocked. The one picture I didn't get was the one with the UPC label. That picture describes the blade as being one for non-ferrous metals and aluminum. To further complicate things there are reputable blade vendors that also recommend this tooth grind for laminates, plastics, and even precision cuts for picture and door frames. These vendors stated that a blade with a triple chip grind, and 80 or more teeth should be used for cutting across the grain. They excel in making crisp miter cuts.

I would like some input and opinions as to whether the blades I purchased will be adequate for general use. The first job on the list is to finish cutting the boards for the pier decking.

way too many teeth... I would look for 40 teeth. 80 is a very slow cutting blade, although good for fine cross cuts, it's real slow. It will leave a polished edge.. as for the post about 100 teeth????? what.. no

100 tpi (teeth per inch)? Or 100 teeth total? I read it as 100 teeth total until Woodchucker pointed out the number of teeth. My Freud Ultimate cut off blade is 108 teeth on the 15" blade. 100 teeth on a 14" cross cut blade doesn't sound too out of line to me. 100 teeth on a 10" or even a 12" blade does sound excessive and less than optimal for most wood working to me. The linear speed of teeth on a 14" blade is much faster than a 10" blade so you can feed a larger blade faster than the comparable smaller diameter blade.

 

[woodchucker]

100 tpi (teeth per inch)? Or 100 teeth total? I read it as 100 teeth total until Woodchucker pointed out the number of teeth. My Freud Ultimate cut off blade is 108 teeth on the 15" blade. 100 teeth on a 14" cross cut blade doesn't sound too out of line to me. 100 teeth on a 10" or even a 12" blade does sound excessive and less than optimal for most wood working to me. The linear speed of teeth on a 14" blade is much faster than a 10" blade so you can feed a larger blade faster than the comparable smaller diameter blade.

I think he said it was a 10" saw, so 100 is excessive.

 

[MikeInOr]

I think he said it was a 10" saw, so 100 is excessive.

It is a 14" saw.

 

[projectnut]

My error the blades I purchased are for the 14" saw they have 100 teeth total not 100 TPI. The errant post has been updated to reflect 100 teeth total rather than toi

 

[projectnut]

I spent a little more time searching for blades this afternoon and I ran across these. The first is a Tenryu 14", 40 tooth ripping blade with a TCG tooth grind. The second is an Oldham precision 80 tooth cutoff blade with an ATB tooth grind, and the third is an Oldham 70 tooth combination blade with no tooth grind information available. All blades are new in the package. None of them specify the hook angle, but the Tenryu mentions it's for use on a table saw. The seller is asking less than $30.00 for the Tenryu, and less than $50.00 for each of the Oldham's.

I in the past I've used some 10" HSS Oldham's, but never any of their carbide tipped blades. I've never heard of Tenryu until they were mentioned on this forum. Are there any opinions as to the quality of any of these blades?

 

[MikeInOr]

I spent a little more time searching for blades this afternoon and I ran across these. The first is a Tenryu 14", 40 tooth ripping blade with a TCG tooth grind. The second is an Oldham precision 80 tooth cutoff blade with an ATB tooth grind, and the third is an Oldham 70 tooth combination blade with no tooth grind information available. All blades are new in the package. None of them specify the hook angle, but the Tenryu mentions it's for use on a table saw. The seller is asking less than $30.00 for the Tenryu, and less than $50.00 for each of the Oldham's.

I in the past I've used some 10" HSS Oldham's, but never any of their carbide tipped blades. I've never heard of Tenryu until they were mentioned on this forum. Are there any opinions as to the quality of any of these blades?

I don't think you could go wrong with any of those.

I think you might want to ask yourself what you will be cutting then look for the blades specific to that kind of work? Are you going to be ripping on your radial arm saw? As you know it can be done safely but I much prefer a table saw.

I have never heard of any difference between a ripping blade for a radial arm saw and a ripping blade for a table saw. I would be interested in the Tenryu 14", 40 tooth ripping blade for my table saw if you are going to pass on it...