Rockwell Vertical Knee Mill Milling Machine - $3,500 (Sacramento, CA)

helmbelly said:
Good info. yeah thats how I tell them apart the beefed up knee on the 30's. The gent I bought my mill from had an 8520 in his museum basement. I went to it like a magnet. It's a bigger mill than I realized in photos, seems very well built. I still want one. I saw one go on ebay a year ago for 1500 that was in decent shape. There are three 8520 on right now and one 8530, all around 3K. Whats strange is that a year ago none of them were over 2K. They seem to have shot up in price. I think bc the hobbyist market has become more aware of what they are. But just a guess. No Rockwell's for sale on epay right now. They are a harder find. I use MT2 on my lathe tailstock so I agree MT2 is not an issue. How large of shank can you grab? With R8 they make 1" but people say dont put much of a load on them. My largest will be a 7/8 collet altho dont own anything past 3/4. So what kind of work do you use your Clausing on?
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The fine feed uses a removable hand wheel, that slips over a stud in front of the course feed lever. The hand wheel interferes with the travel on the lever so you usually see it off when not being used which just leaves a stud showing.

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MT2 collets go up to 1/2", but I also have an MT2 adapter that fits my ER collet chucks from my lathe.

I don't know when production ended for these Rockwell and Clausing mills, but think it is probably safe to assume early 1980s at the latest, and probably some time in the 1970s. Mine was made in the mid 1960s which seems to be very common. Compare that to Bridgeport and clones which have been in production to the present (BPs were also likely made in much larger numbers) and the rising prices are probably just caused by a diminishing supply of machines. I probably see 100+ BP style mills for every small knee mill offered on Craigslist. Clausing, Rockwell and Millrite have a lot more name recognition so command higher prices. Just like cars when a low volume car sells for a high price at auction, and everybody with a rusted out '72 Dodge Dart thinks they are sitting on a gold mine. Same thing when a particularly nice or well tooled example sells at a high price on Ebay, everybody suddenly thinks theirs is worth more than it probably is.

I occasionally see an odd mill of similar size that often sell for much less, older imports and vintage USA. Probably as just as good for a small hobby machine but nobody knows what they are. The shop where I took welding classes had a neat 1980s Taiwanese mill, it looked just like a 1/2 scale Bridgeport so not much bigger than my Clausing, but the brand name Liang Wai isn't going to cause a stampede of buyers. There was a Rotex horizontal / vertical mill recently on CL only asking $700, that is about the same size as these mills. If I didn't already have a mill, I probably would have been satisfied with that one at almost 1/4 the usual asking price.

My other mill is a Sherline so the 8520 feels like a big mill to me. :)


I got into machining to make model parts, so I got a Sherline lathe and mill. They are still the ones I use the most, but my interests grew in size so I started looking for some bigger machines. Still mostly interested in making models but the machines themselves and how to use them also fascinates me. I have a local group of enablers and this site so what started off as a "I just need a mini-lathe and mill" turned into a basement full of cast iron. It seems I do a lot less making of things lately and more making room for things. :grin:
I have a little more work ahead of me arranging things and getting a few of the machines ready to work, but I think I'm almost ready to start making stuff that isn't for one of the machines again. My welder has been getting a lot of work building bases for some of my recent additions.
I started taking welding classes in 2019, and I don't know how I made it all this time without a welder. I'm not that very good at it yet, but I love being able to glue metal together.
 
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Quite interesting. I would prefer my fine feed on the right. I was close to a Taiwanese mill, well priced but it was a bit too big. A couple Taiwan makers had great reputations, the names are lost to me already but they are well known. My vise is Taiwan and its excellent. My Vertex RT is as well and it is top rate. I buy my share of Shars because for simple stuff that is CNC'd on a production line the savings is well worth it. I just got an angle block set for $30, pretty hard to screw up an angle block.

What you say that rings a bell is the prep time you put in before actually cutting. For me prepping a job has become like an infection, it takes me forever, I overthihnk it, over purchase for it and generally turn it into storming the beaches at Normandy. But the its two edged sword bc I love every aspect of it all. I do tend to over buy for a job, but with a new mill you really do need angle blocks, parallels, 123 blocks so i think its just front weighted for me right now. The real problem is I forecast all the money I'll make on a part run and have it all spent before I begin.

I make camera tools and after 30 years packing a camera (movie/tv) I'm good at designing better gizmos for operating a cam but I always think everyone is going to want one of "these"- and maybe they do- but getting the word out is not my strong point so if I do a 25 piece part run it might take a year to sell. Ok maybe 2 ;-)

Could you reccommend a small useable welding machine to get started with (read cheap) I've been wanting one for awhile. I have a friend who is a good welder that works with cameras now - I'm think I could buy him enough beer to get some pointers. I'd want to get it used on CL or Marketplace but no idea what to look for.
 
Smart girls! I used to pay .39 cents for a huge coffee at Time Savers gas station/conv stores here in new olreans. When I saw coffee shops popping up I didnt go to them - had no stomach for pay 3X for a much smaller cup. But then everything happened, the internet, NAFTA, iphones. I'm still dazed.
 
helmbelly said:
Could you reccommend a small useable welding machine to get started with (read cheap) I've been wanting one for awhile. I have a friend who is a good welder that works with cameras now - I'm think I could buy him enough beer to get some pointers. I'd want to get it used on CL or Marketplace but no idea what to look for.
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MIG (wire feed) is pretty easy to learn and what I (and I think most hobby welders) mostly do. TIG is very nice for precision welding, but not easy to get good at. The machines are also more expensive than MIG and stick welding machines.

I don't have any personal experience with cheaper welders, all the welders in my classes were Miller and I dove in head first embracing the buy once, cry once mentality and got a Miller multi-process machine that I can grow into. Honestly for my needs I probably would have been satisfied spending 1/3 the amount for a Hobart 210 MIG welder, but I will learn to TIG weld if it kills me, because I have the machine. :grin:

I was actually taking a TIG class earlier this year when Covid shut everything down. I'm not very good at it, but with a lot of practice I'm sure I will eventually be very happy I went with a machine that lets me do it. TIG is super versatile, you can braze or weld almost any metal with it. Welding the edges of razor blades together is often done by youtube welders to test a TIG machines ability to weld thin materials (and I'm sure to also show off their skills).

Hobart is basically Millers less expensive brand and Lincoln has some budget friendly machines. Some of the newer inexpensive brands are getting good reviews, Everlast, HTP, Primeweld, and even some of the Harbor Freight welders.


There are some members on the forum who actually know what they are doing when it comes to welding. If you want to buy a welder it would be worth starting a thread on that where others can chime in. Just like machining so much depends on what you want to do. You can get a decent 120v only MIG welder for $300-400 but they are kind of like a mini-lathe. Some will love theirs and other will have it on CL in a year to buy something bigger.
I would avoid the cheap flux core wire feed welders though unless you have no budget (HF has them as cheap as $99). Being able to use shielding gas (usually CO2 or a CO2 / Argon mix) gives a much better weld, but adds to the cost (not only of the welder, but you need a tank and gas).

Welding Tips and Tricks is an excellent youtube channel for learning to weld.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqq70AnPkj4-UApS_m_6mPw
 
Aaron_W said:
MIG (wire feed) is pretty easy to learn

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqq70AnPkj4-UApS_m_6mPw
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For me your post is pure gold. This is everything I wondered about - thank you. Ive spun around the googlator checking prices and sobered up quick. A Miller is like buying a mill. Even the Everlasts are an investment. Prob have to budget 1000 for a minimal set up. I don't know enough to even know what size to look for. What "size" welder is needed to make an angle plate out fo 3/8 steel sheet? Then what I really wonder about is aluminum. I assume thats TIG right? Does alum take more involved skill sets or is it more about investing in a diff machine? I make alum parts and the idea like you say of glueing them together is just wow. I want that.
 
helmbelly said:
For me your post is pure gold. This is everything I wondered about - thank you. Ive spun around the googlator checking prices and sobered up quick. A Miller is like buying a mill. Even the Everlasts are an investment. Prob have to budget 1000 for a minimal set up. I don't know enough to even know what size to look for. What "size" welder is needed to make an angle plate out fo 3/8 steel sheet? Then what I really wonder about is aluminum. I assume thats TIG right? Does alum take more involved skill sets or is it more about investing in a diff machine? I make alum parts and the idea like you say of glueing them together is just wow. I want that.
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You can weld aluminum with MIG but it requires a spool gun which puts the wire on the gun, instead of pushing it from the machine. Aluminum is softer than steel so the wire has to be pulled. Even a cheap spool gun costs around $200. I haven't tried MIG welding aluminum, the class I took demonstrated using a spool gun but it was beyond the scope of the class. MIG welding aluminum is more for volume, TIG is a more precise methid but also slower. If you wanted to weld an aluminum trailer MIG with a spool gun would probably be preferred. Welding small aluminum widgets would be a job for TIG.
I did get to weld aluminum in the TIG class before it got cancelled, and it is less forgiving than steel.
Not all TIG machines can weld aluminum, you need a machine than can do AC welding. Many of the cheaper TIG machines only do DC so they can't weld aluminum. TIG also has a lot more options, to a certain degree the more you pay, the more adjustment and range you get.

You can get a decent 120v MIG welder for $400-600 that is good for sheet metal up to about 3/16". You need to go to 240v to get to 3/8" single pass, and are probably looking at $700+ for a 240v MIG. You can build up welds so a machine good for 3/16" could do a 3/8" weld in 2-3 passes for an occasional need, but you are better off going with something bigger to do 1/4"-3/8" often.
Cheap TIG machines start off around $400 for DC only, AC/DC around $800.

As with a lathe or mill it is not hard to talk yourself from a $500 budget into $2000-4000 machine. I took a basic stick / oxy-fuel welding class before I bought a welder so I would be better educated when I spent my money. When I started the class, I was sure I'd just need a basic MIG welder. After I saw TIG in class (it was actually 3 classes held together, so basic, MIG and TIG students are all being taught at the same time) I went from I don't need that to, hmmm that might be useful. When I went down to buy a welder, I was set on either a Miller 211 MIG welder ($1100) or a Miller 215 MIG / DC TIG machine ($1500). I even told my wife as I headed out the door that I was probably going to spend about $1200, $1600-1700 max.
I got to the shop and it turns out the 215 requires an additional $500 "TIG kit" to do TIG (and still only DC TIG), and if bought later it costs more like $700. So Then I'm looking at $1100 or $2000... so I spent $2999 and came home with a Miller 220 MIG / AC/DC TIG machine because that was the only choice that made sense. :grin:


Thankfully I also did well in the wife department so there was no need to hide all the sharp objects.
 
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