Pulley ratios vs. the Real World

Jack, The MALTMILL ® served me well back when I was still brewing. Unfortunately having beer always available on tap did nothing good for my waistline. :)
I know the problem. Lost about 30 lbs since I quit brewing. Beer Time is now 2 bottles between me and my wife. She takes about half and I get the rest.

js
 
sorry to be late to the party, but an 1140 rpm motor would also be a viable swap out.

i have a South Bend drill press that ran way too fast with a 1740 rpm motor,
i installed a 1140 rpm motor and now the drill press is useful for larger diameter bits :)
 
Been following all week without comment. Seems the thread digressed a couple of times without any real answer. Beats me too, unless there is a third pulley involved.

The outer diameter of each sheave is close enough for a ball park speed figure. Adjusting belt size will make a small difference but not the sort you would call a radical change. Generating the symbol for "pi" on a laptop is a pita, I just spell it out. Fewer keystrokes, that I can't remember anyway.

One thing that bothers me is the motor specs. An AC motor runs based on frequency. A 2 pole motor synchronous field is at 3600 RPM. A 4 pole motor field is at 1800. This for the States at 60 Hz. 50 Hz motors are a fuzz slower. But if run on 60 Hz, will run at 3600/1800 RPM. There is a formula for figuring that but throws in more complication. [F=PS/120] F of course is frequency, 60 here, 50 overseas. P is poles, and S is speed. The 120 is a constant. This is the rotating field, and works for both single phase and three phase motors. Basic algebra shifting things around yields the desired variable.

Slip, a technical term, is the actual speed of the shaft. It will show unloaded as ~3450/~1740, and is where the motor gets its' power. The ~3000 speed you described doesn't fit unless the motor is a 50 Hz at the name plate. But even then, if the motor runs at 60 Hz, which will be 3450/1740 RPM at the shaft.

I have a "recent" Craftsman DP.(within the last 20 odd years) There is a third sheave that allows for relatively low running speed. Call it two belts, in series. That's the only answer I can see that fits the wide difference between the calculated speed VS the measured speed you described.

That, or a gear reduction, which I don't see on a drill press, unless home brew. I had one I fitted a few years ago, gone now. Look at my site, http://www.hudsontelcom.com/9X20Gear.html for a description of the mechanism. The gizmo is roughly 3:1. Running backward would yield what you describe. But unlikely. There is no other answer unless you mis-measured the pulleys. That can happen, but you would have to be dumb as a box of rocks. And I don't see that happening, not to a machinist. Sorry for the "negative" comment, it's the only thing that fit here.

You have my sympathies dealing with the insurance company. I imagine with all you had to deal with, they took a solid punch in the solar plexus and look for the slightest excuse not to pay off. Nothing to do but start over. Losing all the old stuff hurts bad. I have books dating back to the 19th century. First editions... I worry about the same thing, constantly. Many cannot be replaced, at any cost.

Best of luck, Sir. and sorry I don't have a better answer.
Bill Hudson​
 
"One thing that bothers me is the motor specs. An AC motor runs based on frequency. A 2 pole motor synchronous field is at 3600 RPM. A 4 pole motor field is at 1800. This for the States at 60 Hz. 50 Hz motors are a fuzz slower. But if run on 60 Hz, will run at 3600/1800 RPM. "



Thanks for your thoughts.

Don't understand the 3600/1800. Not the numbers but the slash. One of my old drill presses had a motor with a switch to select either of two speeds. Don't know exactly what they were but combined with the step pulleys gave a good range of speeds. Never understood how this worked.

Another question I have is about the Chinese VFD's. Even the ones that have single phase input spec the output as 3 phase.
Does this mean they only work on 3 phase motors?

Jack Schmidling
 
The 3600/1800 is referencing a 2 pole motor and a 4 pole motor. The actual shaft speed will be more like 3450/1745 RPM. The difference is called "slip" and varies somewhat from motor to motor and with or without load. 3600 for a 2 pole and 1800 for a 4 pole. There is no such thing as a 3 pole. They are in pairs. There are slower motors, but 3600(2 pole) and 1800(4 pole) is the norm for home shops. The slower motors are available but are horrendously expensive, to put it simply. I worked on one(a long time ago) that ran at 275 RPM. Field at 300 RPM. But at 900 HP, probably a bit large for home use.

Multi-speed motors I have worked with in the past. They usually are wired differently from motor to motor and I didn't run across them that often so failed to memorize the connections. Sorry... ... Basically, they would be wound both 2 pole and 4 pole, switching for fast or slow.

A variable frequency(variable speed) drive synthesizes the output wave form electronicly. Single phase AC input is converted to pure DC, which is then converted to three phase output. There are some adjustments for the magnetics of the motor to run at variable speed. When I "retired" from the industrial electrical field, VFDs had just become available, at several thousand bux. I have not followed the advancements as I don't trust the electronics package. To my knowledge, currently, there is no single phase device. Sorry, I just don't like them and being retired, I can turn my back on them, even the knowledge of them.

Bill Hudson​
 
From some limited research that I once did the 1ph output VFDs are not for equipment but more for things like fans and other low load devices with fractional HP motors. The problem comes from the capacitors and the internal start switches. When the motors is slowed down it thinks it is starting and then stats switching things and that will mess with the VFD.
 
The 3600/1800 is referencing a 2 pole motor and a 4 pole motor. The actual shaft speed will be more like 3450/1745 RPM. The difference is called "slip" and varies somewhat from motor to motor and with or without load. 3600 for a 2 pole and 1800 for a 4 pole. There is no such thing as a 3 pole. They are in pairs. There are slower motors, but 3600(2 pole) and 1800(4 pole) is the norm for home shops. The slower motors are available but are horrendously expensive, to put it simply. I worked on one(a long time ago) that ran at 275 RPM. Field at 300 RPM. But at 900 HP, probably a bit large for home use.

Multi-speed motors I have worked with in the past. They usually are wired differently from motor to motor and I didn't run across them that often so failed to memorize the connections. Sorry... ... Basically, they would be wound both 2 pole and 4 pole, switching for fast or slow.

A variable frequency(variable speed) drive synthesizes the output wave form electronicly. Single phase AC input is converted to pure DC, which is then converted to three phase output. There are some adjustments for the magnetics of the motor to run at variable speed. When I "retired" from the industrial electrical field, VFDs had just become available, at several thousand bux. I have not followed the advancements as I don't trust the electronics package. To my knowledge, currently, there is no single phase device. Sorry, I just don't like them and being retired, I can turn my back on them, even the knowledge of them.

Bill Hudson​
 
I am so old that my first experience with a VFD had vacuum tubes as the series pass component.

Just a super high powered VFO.

js
 
Here is an update on my Power King conversion to a milling machine.

I made a lot of changes since starting this thread but the most serious is mounting the cross-slide vice directly onto the base casting instead of on the adjustable drill table.

This not only improves the rigidity to near absolute but also buys me several more inches of vertical space which it was really hurting for.

The key to getting this to work was realizing that the head was designed to move up and down in addition to rotating horizontally. The problem then became figuring how to move it up and down as it probably had not been moved for 50 years or more.

This was solved by a video
in which a small bottle jack was used. I immediately ordered one and it works perfectly.

MILL3.JPG





I have been tempted to ditch the cross slide vise in favor of an X - Y table but have come to realize a serious advantage of the vice, especially if most of one's work is done in a vice. The vice never has to be squared with the table as this is built into it.

Also, I have not found a vice and table combo that uses as little vertical space as the CS vise.

I also made some changes to the CS vise but I will save them for later.

Jack

Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber, Gems,
Nature, Radio, Sheep, Sausage, Silver
 
Jack, I assume if you found the video of that guy using a DP as a mill you also found the dozens of others that say why it is also a bad idea. I am curious how he hold his tool holder attached to the DP.
 
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