Not everything from China is junk

[C-Bag]

Knipex stuff may be better, but not 5 times better.

And there’s the rub. As a hobby guy I’m always trying to balance cost and quality. When these discussions come up I pay attention to the brands that are perceived as quality and keep them on my radar. There have been times when I find those brands in my junkyard dog CL finds.

One was Niagara and in amongst the various endmills and lathe bits from a defunct machine shop was a brand new 6 flute 3/4” Niagara endmill. I put it with my beginner endmill set I bought from LMS which has served me well all these years after I invested in a Checkel to resharpen them. I finally decided I had a reason to use it and not even driving it harder than I would my other endmills in mild steel it broke off one flute which none of my other endmills have done. Needless to say I’m not impressed. Was I using it wrong or just a case of pearls before swine, dunno.

 

[455dan]

Why do they never listen?

Oh, and I wholeheartedly agree with you professional/industrial vs. hobbyist comments: my 115-piece M35 jobber set from HF is going strong after 10 years (even though I bought a spare set maybe 5 years ago on sale); I just hope my M42 Drill America stubbies hold up that well.


Cheers, Charlie

I bought the same 115 piece M35 from HF last year? and the bits are good, but they stuck some same sized bits in different locations. Should have taken them back but something tells me it would be the same deal - 115 bits with about 90 diameters.

 

[ChazzC]

I bought the same 115 piece M35 from HF last year? and the bits are good, but they stuck some same sized bits in different locations. Should have taken them back but something tells me it would be the same deal - 115 bits with about 90 diameters.

I didn't check all of mine, but did a spot check and those were good. I also have a TiN HSS set I picked up on Amazon that I'm slowly converting (on a case-by-case basis) to brass & plastic:

I keep a small diamond file/hone in the case to touch up the relief on bits as I need them and mark the case either side of the bit location so I know which ones are done. Decent quality bits that should hold up for this purpose.

 

[RJSakowski]

Some 15 years ago, I bought a 115 piece set of titanium coated HSS jobber drills from Grizzly. I knew when I bought it that it wasn't a quality set but my logic was even though it wasn't the best quality, it was a full set and if a drill broke or otherwise failed, I would replace it with one of decent quality. My first use was installing a Grizzly DRO on the new G0755 mill. The drill that I was using dulled almost immediately wouldn't cut the mill casting. Later, I found several of drills were the wrong size. Lesson: don't buy Grizzly drills.

A local farm supply store had a sale on"HSS" tap and die sets in either inch or metric for a ridiculously low price. I bought one of each set. When I returned home. I spark checked one of the taps and it was actually carbon steel. I returned the inch set but since I had defaced one of the taps, I kept the metric set, figuring that I could keep it out in the barn as a once used, throwaway. I tried one of the dies and I question whether I could tap a stick of butter with it. It wasn't sharpened properly. Lesson: don't buy a tap and die set from a farm supply store or anyone else who doesn't normally handle items like that, for that matter.

At HF, I saw some 1000 grit wet or dry paper. I bought a pack as that is a grit that isn't easily found. When wetting the paper, the grit washed away. Lesson: don't buy abrasives from HF.

 

[ChazzC]

At HF, I saw some 1000 grit wet or dry paper. I bought a pack as that is a grit that isn't easily found. When wetting the paper, the grit washed away. Lesson: don't buy abrasives from HF.

Should have been labelled "Wet (no, actually, Dry).

I've had reasonable success with their blue sanding disks & belt (Bauer, maybe?).

 

[RJSakowski]

Should have been labelled "Wet (no, actually, Dry).

I've had reasonable success with their blue sanding disks & belt (Bauer, maybe?).

I actually have one of the diamond replacement wheels for their saw blade sharpener. I mounted it on a small motor and use it for dressing my carbide. It has been in use for a half dozen years or more and still going strong. I bought a replacement several years back but it is still sitting on the shelf. I use their 4" cutoff disks and have no problem with their wrenches, The 2t. engine hoist has served me well.

The quality of HF products has improved significantly over the years and certainly everything they sell isn't junk. The issue is differentiating between the good and bad.

 

[ltlvt]

Absolutely, playing russian roulette with your tooling by taking a punt on AliExpress items (where, even if you think you're ordering exactly the same item as you did last time and were happy with, there's a chance that the item is now coming from a different factory where they do their metrology with a plastic school rule) is something a business would be well advised to steer clear of.

But this is the "Hobby Machinist Forum", and for hobbyists, buying say, AliExpress inserts rather than Kennametal, can free up limited budgets to be spent on other things.

I think everyone on here would love to be buying Mitsubishi endmills or Mitutoyo glass scales or Guhring or Dormer drills or Albrecht drill chucks.

But sometimes we have to cut the cloth according to our needs and budgetary constraints.

Jobber drill sets aren't the worst thing to economise on for most hobbyists, since jobber drills aren't generally considered a precision cutting tool, and if one is buying a set, the expectations are best set lower anyway.

I've got an index of jobber 1-6 mm (in 0.1 mm increments) that cost £30 from amazon.co.uk. I've used them a fair bit and honestly, they seem to be holding up well compared with my Dormer drills (which I've bought individually when Chronos, RDG or Zoro have a sale; which seems to be fairly often).

Mind you, I tend to go for my stub drills as a first preference and they're Dormer (again, bought individually when on sale), so jobbers only get brought out when I need the extra length.

I also have some Sherwood stubbies and they seem to be quite good and are a bit cheaper than Dormer.

The only thing I'm missing is a nice index to put my stubbies in. The jobber indexes are designed with too long a 'rack'. @ChazzC suggested I modify an index, which is a good idea and the suggestion ought to have stopped me whinging and motivated me to follow it...but here I am, whinging again!

Perhaps Whining is in your DNA? lol

 

[ltlvt]

This. More than quality, brand name stuff ensures consistency. It's really built to specifications, and you can at least expect it to meet such specifications.

I learned years ago when I was in the Automotive parts manufacturing business Brand names mean nothing. TRW and Sealed power both buy their piston blanks from the same place. I made fuel filters for AC Spark Plug. I also put Fram labels on the same filters and put them in a Fram box. Materials are a commodity. Drill blanks are no different than Piston blanks. Spark plugs with an AC Delco label on them are now actually made by Bosh. The fuel injection in my 98 C-5 Corvette was a Bosh system. So does Greenfield get their drill blanks from China? Does Bridgeport get their castings from China? About the only thing that is really made in the USA now is Dollar Bills.

 

[m1kemex]

So does Greenfield get their drill blanks from China? Does Bridgeport get their castings from China? About the only thing that is really made in the USA now is Dollar Bills.

That's why I love my car (made by Skoda). I still had the original battery lying around and it was not sourced from China, but Poland. Pretty much all parts were made in Europe and it was not expensive at all. Seems like Eastern Europeans do not have the big egos of the West.

I'm sure most tool manufacturers have plants in China now. Some produce stuff for end consumers, but I believe the manufacturing base in China is a really lucrative market itself.

 

[ltlvt]

That's why I love my car (made by Skoda). I still had the original battery lying around and it was not sourced from China, but Poland. Pretty much all parts were made in Europe and it was not expensive at all. Seems like Eastern Europeans do not have the big egos of the West.

I'm sure most tool manufacturers have plants in China now. Some produce stuff for end consumers, but I believe the manufacturing base in China is a really lucrative market itself.

I lived in Ciudad Chihuahua for almost a year in 2007-2008. Loved the people and loved the country but hated the stress that goes with living there.