New BS-0 "dropped" before delivery, what would you do?

WobblyHand said:
All put together again. Pretty well adjusted, and far smoother than when I got it. Not that the seller will care. Packed in the box with additional cardboard to prevent some shifting. Original styrofoam was undersized for the shipping box allowing additional product movement. Took 10 sheets of cut up corrugated box to fill the gap. Attempted to further immobilize the BS-0, in the box, but if it's dropped, all bets are off. As of the moment, I have not heard back from the seller. It's not Chinese New Years, so time to complain to eBay.
Click to expand...

Bingo! I give it 70/30 they won't want it back.
 
I do the same thing with CNC toolholders. I have bought them in bulk from China, measure them to see if they meet the 0.0004" TIR runout spec, then message the seller and complain. They send new ones to replace the ones that didn't meet spec. repeat ad-infitinum. It is a pain but I end up getting holders for less than half of anywhere else and I do eventually get the correct quantity of good ones.
 
I managed to get 10 1/8" carbide end mills for very cheap because they were advertised as drills and the picture showed drill bits. Of course, they didn't want them back. I accepted their counter offer. At the time I didn't even have a mill. Now that I do, I've used them often. The fact that I broke one doesn't matter as they only cost me less than 25 cents each.

But that being said, I'm a square shooter. I will be fair. But fair doesn't mean being a chump. With a broken bearing casting this unit will not work well for very long. I've started the return process with eBay. My bank has been informed. eBay's rules clearly state the goods must be received undamaged. The BS-0 was damaged. Perfectly within my rights to ask for refund or a new undamaged unit. This doesn't mean that the turn around will be instant. Was hoping to play around with gear cutting, but it's looking like that will not be happening soon. :(
 
This is why I paid the extra $100 or so and bought mine from Precision Matthews. It is probably the same unit but it came properly packaged with an outer box and packing, and if there had been an issue no games.
 
WobblyHand said:
I managed to get 10 1/8" carbide end mills for very cheap because they were advertised as drills and the picture showed drill bits. Of course, they didn't want them back. I accepted their counter offer. At the time I didn't even have a mill. Now that I do, I've used them often. The fact that I broke one doesn't matter as they only cost me less than 25 cents each.

But that being said, I'm a square shooter. I will be fair. But fair doesn't mean being a chump. With a broken bearing casting this unit will not work well for very long. I've started the return process with eBay. My bank has been informed. eBay's rules clearly state the goods must be received undamaged. The BS-0 was damaged. Perfectly within my rights to ask for refund or a new undamaged unit. This doesn't mean that the turn around will be instant. Was hoping to play around with gear cutting, but it's looking like that will not be happening soon. :(
Click to expand...

I just found this thread (and only read about 1/3rd of the conversation).
I'm happy to see that you've initiated the return process.
The way to get sellers to improve their packaging is through educating them.
It seems the most effective way to educate them is through their wallet.
It's incredible to me that eBay doesn't have a "Well packaged" category in their rating system.

In case you haven't been through the return (to china) process before, following is my experience.
eBay requires a few days for buyer and seller to arrive at a settlement.
Rather than authorizing an immediate refund, the seller will consume the time asking for more photos, more information and making lowball offers.
That is particularly obnoxious because you have already sent everything and your request was perfectly clear.
In a few days, the process will timeout and you can request a refund directly from eBay.
I expect you will get a full refund.
I'll be interested to learn if you actually have to return the item to China.
I assume the seller would have to pay for return shipping and they won't want to.

Please keep us posted.
 
I've sent most of the photos including the broken casting. Sure it will take a while. Not interested in sending it back to China. It was shipped to me from Georgia, so if I actually have to return it, I'll ship to Georgia, or somewhere in country. Surprisingly, eBay has a very clear policy, they expect their sellers to deliver undamaged product that matched the listing description to their customers. If the customer receives non-conformant or damaged goods, eBay encourages the return and says the customer will get their money back. As of today, that is on the eBay site. When this happened once before (non-conformant goods) I was issued a pre-paid shipping label and returned the product for a full refund. Now what I bought wasn't heavy or bulky, so there's that. (Bought some tuning forks - and they were off frequency! I measured them and told eBay they were non-conformant.)

Probably will get some push back. I told them it was broken. I took pictures. When it's assembled you can't even see the crack. You have to pull the chuck, the backing plate and the indexing dial to even see the problem. Even then, it's just a hairline crack, you can't tell what the extent of the crack is. To take the picture I had to remove the spindle and clean the piece. I'm sure the bearing itself is toast, or will be in a while. I didn't bother cleaning up the bearing, since the cracked housing was sufficient evidence of being damaged. If it does go back, I sure hope it doesn't get shipped to some poor soul. It will work for a short while, but I expect the bearing housing will crack in two under milling load.
 
Be aware that eBay (and probably, the seller) have no idea what the technical details mean. The seller might assert that you caused the broken casting by incompetent disassembly. The three photos in the OP are sufficient to show damage and eBay can understand that. I get that you were trying to do the right thing and see if you could live with it. However, the deeper they see you get into it, the more "you own it". YMMV
 
Are you the seller's local representative? Why are you giving me the 10th degree? Are you telling me not to proceed? What about my rights to receive undamaged goods? Or my rights as a consumer? I have every right to disassemble a CLONED BS-0 dividing head to look for damage, especially if the packaging both internal and external shows signs of being dropped. Especially if the seller insists everything will be fine. Told me to use it. I didn't use it, I inspected it. When people tell me it will be fine - that's usually the dead giveaway there's a problem buried down deep.

To prove that I caused the problem, they'd have to disassemble it and see. I really doubt they are even able to do the disassembly. (Or be willing to bother, because it takes time.) (They won't be able to find anything, because I didn't break it.)

All that aside, I have documented evidence that the package was received damaged. And I have my CC company on my side, no matter what shenanigans the seller might pull. eBay says the goods must be received undamaged or they can be returned. I sent photos of packaging damage the day after I got it via the eBay messaging system. In addition, I discovered there was deep hidden damage.

This tooling was sold as machinist tooling. What do machinists do? They take stuff apart. And they put it back together. I've rebuilt engines, this is nothing. Really, a BS-0 isn't very complicated. I know all about hidden damage. The only way to find it is via the disassembly process. I disassembled this unit just enough to get a clear picture of the damage. No more. The unit was reassembled to better than received condition. It's smoother turning - no wonder, I had to remove at least 10 grams of swarf and grinding dust from every single surface, both internal and external.

Sorry if I sound testy, but you touched a nerve. Apologies in advance if I've offended you.

On Wednesday, if no response from seller, I ask eBay to step in. If they do nothing, on Thursday I do a reverse charge with the CC.
 
WobblyHand said:
Are you the seller's local representative? Why are you giving me the 10th degree? Are you telling me not to proceed? What about my rights to receive undamaged goods? Or my rights as a consumer? I have every right to disassemble a CLONED BS-0 dividing head to look for damage, especially if the packaging both internal and external shows signs of being dropped. Especially if the seller insists everything will be fine. Told me to use it. I didn't use it, I inspected it. When people tell me it will be fine - that's usually the dead giveaway there's a problem buried down deep.

To prove that I caused the problem, they'd have to disassemble it and see. I really doubt they are even able to do the disassembly. (Or be willing to bother, because it takes time.) (They won't be able to find anything, because I didn't break it.)

All that aside, I have documented evidence that the package was received damaged. And I have my CC company on my side, no matter what shenanigans the seller might pull. eBay says the goods must be received undamaged or they can be returned. I sent photos of packaging damage the day after I got it via the eBay messaging system. In addition, I discovered there was deep hidden damage.

This tooling was sold as machinist tooling. What do machinists do? They take stuff apart. And they put it back together. I've rebuilt engines, this is nothing. Really, a BS-0 isn't very complicated. I know all about hidden damage. The only way to find it is via the disassembly process. I disassembled this unit just enough to get a clear picture of the damage. No more. The unit was reassembled to better than received condition. It's smoother turning - no wonder, I had to remove at least 10 grams of swarf and grinding dust from every single surface, both internal and external.

Sorry if I sound testy, but you touched a nerve. Apologies in advance if I've offended you.

On Wednesday, if no response from seller, I ask eBay to step in. If they do nothing, on Thursday I do a reverse charge with the CC.
Click to expand...

Apparently I have touched a nerve. Sorry about that. You haven't offended me. Surprised me a little, but . . . Bye bye.
 
@extropic apparently you did. It made me feel like everything I was doing to assert myself and not be steam rollered was wrong. I was only trying to do what I thought was the right thing. Perhaps you didn't intend it that way at all. At this point I'm trying to extract myself from the mess, which was originally caused by either the sellers or the common carrier. If you have some constructive advice, I'm willing to hear it.

I have a poor set of cards, but that's all I have to play.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top